Seeking User Comments on 25W to 50W GMRS Mobile Radios

[popnokick]

The FCC's RFC period for this has closed, but did anyone reading this thread submit a comment requesting a change to permit Part 90 radios on GMRS (or similar)? -
In re: Delete, Delete, Delete FCC looks to eliminate rules and regulations

 

[prcguy]

Thanks for the FCC part 95 rules and let’s take this a piece at a time paying close attention to the italicized FCC wording.

For the first sentence “No GMRS transmitter will be certified for use in the GMRS if it is equipped with a frequency capability not listed in § 95.1763, unless such transmitter is also certified for use in another radio service for which the frequency is authorized and for which certification is also required.”

It seems a typical UHF 450-512MHz part 90 radio meets this as long as you are licensed on any part 90 or similar “commercial” service for any other frequencies in the radio. Then the next sentence: “No GMRS transmitter will be certified for use in the GMRS if it is equipped with the capabilities to operate in services that do not require equipment certification, such as the Amateur Radio Service.“

That says to me a part 90 radio that can program and operate in the part 97 amateur service would not qualify and that might mean a 450 to 512MHz specific Motorola XTL/XTS/APX single band radio might qualify as it can’t program amateur frequencies but a 403 to 470MHz version of the exact same series would not qualify because it can program and operate in the amateur part 97 service.

Then the last sentence: “All frequency determining circuitry (including crystals) and programming controls in each GMRS transmitter must be internal to the transmitter and must not be accessible from the exterior of the transmitter operating panel or from the exterior of the transmitter enclosure.”

I take that as front panel programming (FPP) is not legal, but does it include computer programming via serial or USB cable attached to the radio? The programming port is “accessible from the exterior of the transmitter enclosure” on the Motorola XTL/XTS/APX series for example and it is a “programming control” and does determine frequency.

Things like this need to be clarified or explained by the FCC because it may be interpreted in more than one way making you think something is legal when the FCC thinks it’s not.

 

[kc2asb]

Great explanation @prcguy. My Maxtrac would certainly not qualify as it covers the 440MHz band.

 

[sallen07]

It seems a typical UHF 450-512MHz part 90 radio meets this as long as you are licensed on any part 90 or similar “commercial” service for any other frequencies in the radio.

Yes you're right ... I was thinking of the typical VHF/UHF "Part 90" radio that will do 136-174 and 400-480 rather than a high-split UHF radio. Even the Kenwood TK-3180s that were type-accepted under the old Part 95 rules were high split. (The -K/K3 models that do 450-520 rather than -K2/K4 that do 400-470, even though both will work on GMRS.)

Then the last sentence: “All frequency determining circuitry (including crystals) and programming controls in each GMRS transmitter must be internal to the transmitter and must not be accessible from the exterior of the transmitter operating panel or from the exterior of the transmitter enclosure.”

I take that as front panel programming (FPP) is not legal but does it include computer programming via serial or USB cable attached to the radio? The programming port is accessible from the exterior of the transmitter enclosure on the Motorola XTL/XTS/APX series for example. Things like this need to be clarified or explained by the FCC because it may be interpreted in more than one way making you think something is legal when the FCC thinks it’s not.

I don't think I ever paid any attention to that sentence until today. Kind of an odd statement if you ask me. I love the reference to crystals.

Not sure what the intent is, either. To prohibit VFO mode? FPP? I'm guessing the point is to prohibit the user from tuning to a non-GMRS frequency and transmitting there, but if you have up/down channel buttons or a knob on top to change channels, isn't that accessing the "frequency determining circuitry" from "the exterior of the transmitting enclosure"?

Similar with programming ... most GMRS radios can be programmed using a computer and programming cable ... is that not legal?

 

[kc2asb]

Not sure what the intent is, either. To prohibit VFO mode? FPP? I'm guessing the point is to prohibit the user from tuning to a non-GMRS frequency and transmitting there, but if you have up/down channel buttons or a knob on top to change channels, isn't that accessing the "frequency determining circuitry" from "the exterior of the transmitting enclosure"?

I think you are exactly right. Part 95 radios, including 11m CB, are channelized. There was no provision for a VFO that would allow you to tune between channels.

Interesting point on the channel knob or up/down buttons. They simply choose between preset channels, in the case of a CB/FRS radio for example, vs altering the frequencies stored in the radio.

 

[prcguy]

Yes you're right ... I was thinking of the typical VHF/UHF "Part 90" radio that will do 136-174 and 400-480 rather than a high-split UHF radio. Even the Kenwood TK-3180s that were type-accepted under the old Part 95 rules were high split. (The -K/K3 models that do 450-520 rather than -K2/K4 that do 400-470, even though both will work on GMRS.)

I don't think I ever paid any attention to that sentence until today. Kind of an odd statement if you ask me. I love the reference to crystals.

Not sure what the intent is, either. To prohibit VFO mode? FPP? I'm guessing the point is to prohibit the user from tuning to a non-GMRS frequency and transmitting there, but if you have up/down channel buttons or a knob on top to change channels, isn't that accessing the "frequency determining circuitry" from "the exterior of the transmitting enclosure"?

Similar with programming ... most GMRS radios can be programmed using a computer and programming cable ... is that not legal?

FPP or VFO is definitely out and I think that was covered in plain English in a prior FCC ruling. A channel selector would only select what has been programmed or installled in the radio so it’s not specifically a “frequency determining circuitry” or “programming control”. And if the radio meets the other rules it could not program part 97 amateur frequencies for you to then select via a channel selector or knob.

 

[k7ng]

+1 for the Kenwood TK-8180K. Not the K2. The K model is Part 95 certified. You find them for reasonable prices on popular bidding sites. They are a very well-made product. Not hard to program at all, with the KPG-89 CPS.

 

[hill]

+1 for the Kenwood TK-8180K. Not the K2. The K model is Part 95 certified. You find them for reasonable prices on popular bidding sites. They are a very well-made product. Not hard to program at all, with the KPG-89 CPS.

I will second what K7NG said above. TK-8180 is most likely the best radio to GMRS for users who want to use real radios on this band along with it's handheld relative the TK-3180.

 

[merlin]

Seems to me so many radios will meet part 95 but they are not on any list. I have an XG-100M does GMRS very good and I find nothing that says it does or doesn't meet part 95. verbatim by the ruels. Or did I miss somthing that says just by the flip of a switch it can be used on another service.
Once programmed for GMRS, now the user can use the radio on GMRS given they are licensed, OR-- Change to programmed amateur frequencies and use it there given the appropriate license.

 

[K4EET]

Hi @merlin,

You bring up some good points. Even my handheld GMRS transceiver that I bought a pair of for my son and I to communicate on around the house, does not appear in the FCC’s database as near as I can tell.

Baofeng model GM-15PRO
FCC ID: 2AJGM-GM15PRO

Believe me, this is all very frustrating. All I want are GMRS-only radios that have valid FCC IDs that are good today. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, this task of trying to be legal sure is difficult!

I also have another handheld that is supposedly GRMS legal if the GMRS firmware is installed. It does have two other firmware versions, a ham version and an “unlocked” version which opens up the VHF/UHF transceiver for 200 MHz, 350 MHz, and 500 MHz (if activated). 😳

TIDRADIO model TD-H3
FCC ID: 2A4FB-TD831

Since I only use that portable for the VHF/UHF ham bands, I have not checked the FCC ID for GMRS compliance. I suspect that it too does not appear in the FCC’s database. 😂

As for my status on this thread, I am seriously considering the Midland MXT500 as it is one of the few that actually does exist in the FCC’s database. I just wish that more GMRS radios would receive a valid FCC ID for Part 95E certification.

 

[KF0NYL]

The Midland MXT500 is a good choice. It will work right out of the box, is easy to program through the radio or with a computer, and is Part 95 certified.

I know that my recommendations are not favored by quite a few on this forum but that's okay. You asked about Part 95 certified radios and I gave my suggestions with personal experience with them.

The Wouxun KG-1000G is also Part 95 certified and a good radio that works right out of the box and is easy to program.
FCC ID WVTWOUXUN20

 

[kny2xb]

Hi @merlin,

You bring up some good points. Even my handheld GMRS transceiver that I bought a pair of for my son and I to communicate on around the house, does not appear in the FCC’s database as near as I can tell.

Baofeng model GM-15PRO
FCC ID: 2AJGM-GM15PRO

Believe me, this is all very frustrating. All I want are GMRS-only radios that have valid FCC IDs that are good today. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, this task of trying to be legal sure is difficult!

I also have another handheld that is supposedly GRMS legal if the GMRS firmware is installed. It does have two other firmware versions, a ham version and an “unlocked” version which opens up the VHF/UHF transceiver for 200 MHz, 350 MHz, and 500 MHz (if activated). 😳

TIDRADIO model TD-H3
FCC ID: 2A4FB-TD831

Since I only use that portable for the VHF/UHF ham bands, I have not checked the FCC ID for GMRS compliance. I suspect that it too does not appear in the FCC’s database. 😂

As for my status on this thread, I am seriously considering the Midland MXT500 as it is one of the few that actually does exist in the FCC’s database. I just wish that more GMRS radios would receive a valid FCC ID for Part 95E certification.

Presuming that this is a legit database, if not, I goofed

GM-15PRO

https://fccid.io/2AJGM-GM15PRO

Parts 15B & 95E

TD-H3

https://fccid.io/2A4FBTD831

Part 15B [Part 15C if you count the BlueTooth]

 

[nd5y]

Presuming that this is a legit database, if not, I goofed

fccid.io's data comes from the FCC OET.

 

[K4EET]

Could somebody redo a search in the FCC OET for:

Baofeng model GM-15PRO
FCC ID: 2AJGM-GM15PRO

I keep coming up with no hits on this radio. Since @kny2xb gets a hit at fccid.io's database, I don’t understand what I’m doing wrong.


I also unchecked the Exact Match box for the FCC Rule Part. Something is wrong with my search but I don’t see what it is.

<edit 1> Here are the results from fccid.io


<edit 2> Here is my FCC OET search form:

 

[Firebell2110]

Thanks for chiming in @mmckenna! You already know that I value your responses. I’ll put that equipment combo on the top of my list. 😃

Don't forget you can always use MURS equipment the way I do also but nobody's around I live in southeastern Wisconsin and not a peep on any of the channels anymore other than those Garmin Astro dog collars that's about it Hopefully that picks up though and I'll hear more voice traffic if it comes through!!!!!!!

 

[nd5y]

I don’t understand what I’m doing wrong.

I do.
The hyphen is part of the product code.
On the FCC OET search page enter:
Grantee Code: 2AJGM
Product Code: -GM15PRO

 

[K4EET]

I do.
The hyphen is part of the product code.
On the FCC OET search page enter:
Grantee Code: 2AJGM
Product Code: -GM15PRO

I would have never thought that! Thanks! It works…

 

[Coffeemug]

I remember one fella from years ago, Russ Stafford W3CH (SK). Russ also had a GMRS call, which I don't remember Here was an individual who preached on the importance of working in the confines of the FCC Rules and Regulations. However, I knew that Russ didn't always practice what he preached. Russ used to be the communications coordinator for the Delaware Valley Multiple Sclerosis Society. Each year the MS 150 City to Shore, Russ would insist that no Radio Volunteer would use Q-codes or ten codes, because according to him, violates FCC Rs & Rs. Besides, Russ strictly forbids the use opened / modified radios. Of course, Russ was using a Radio. I can see the reasons to use plain langue, and I can also see the reasons for using typed accepted equipment. But I can't understand why he didn't comply to his own rules.
Don't get me wrong, Russ Stafford was stand up person, even though he was do as I say and not as I do.
Just want to add a story from my years of being licensed in both Amateur Radio and GMRS. Sorry if I seemed to stray off the topic, because I wasn't really trying to. I just didn't really feel like I could make sense just my experience on casual rag chewing, whether Amateur Radio or GMRS..

 

[K4EET]

Hi @Coffeemug and thanks for your comment. Not entirely off-topic since the theme of my thread is to be compliant with the FCC rules and regulations. As I am finding out, in the GMRS area, compliance is easier said than done. There are so few Part 95E radios out there that I can understand how easy it would be to just program any “unlocked” radio for GMRS and have at it.

One thing that I’ve not gotten an answer to, and contacting the FCC is probably needed here, “are previously type accepted Part 95 radios that are no longer in the FCC’s database still legal to use for GMRS?” I probably know what the FCC’s answer will be, further decreasing the number of type accepted radios in the GMRS world. It is getting darker the further I go down this rabbit hole…

 

[AK9R]

are previously type accepted Part 95 radios that are no longer in the FCC’s database still legal to use for GMRS?

Are you saying that there are radios which previously had FCC equipment authorizations but have been removed from the equipment authorization database? Do you have any examples? What are the FCC IDs of these examples?