Seeking User Comments on 25W to 50W GMRS Mobile Radios

[K4EET]

Whatever your needs are, that's what you use. <snip>

Precisely! In my case, I have a GMRS repeater about 15 miles away that I need to access. I receive it fine on an HT and I can bring it up on transmit but my audio is just white noise. There is a second GMRS repeater that I cannot bring up that is about 25 miles away. With a 5 dBi gain base antenna that I have and a 25 to 50 watt transmitter, I know that I will be solid into the first repeater and the second one we’ll just have to see. The second repeater is not critical that I access it.

 

[Coffeemug]

Precisely! In my case, I have a GMRS repeater about 15 miles away that I need to access. I receive it fine on an HT and I can bring it up on transmit but my audio is just white noise. There is a second GMRS repeater that I cannot bring up that is about 25 miles away. With a 5 dBi gain base antenna that I have and a 25 to 50 watt transmitter, I know that I will be solid into the first repeater and the second one we’ll just have to see. The second repeater is not critical that I access it.

I knew one day I would surprise myself giving some sensible advice to a fellow radio enthusiast. I guess I underestimated some folks, because it seems like I get a lot twisted around when talking a Two-way Radios in general. I do my best to be knowledgeable and up to date with correct information.

 

[kayn1n32008]

Kenwood TK8180H-K, TK-8180H-K2 both 45-ish watts. 512 channels, 128 zones.

The H-K is 450-520Mhz
The H-K2 is 400-470MHz. Pretty sure both are part 95-E certified.

TK-8180-K and TK8180-K2 both are 25-ish watts. 512 channels, 128 zones

The -K is 450-520MHz
The -K2 is 400-470MHz I believe both also have part 95-E certification.

I've used TK-8180-K2 and H-K2 models as well as NX700 Mobiles(Very similar but better display plus NXDN) and they are excellent radios, software is pretty straight forward. Much simpler to use than Motorola software. Cables are cheap, and if you look, both the narrow and and wide band software is fairly easy to find.

They are capable of being remote mounted, the only thing with them is the front firing speaker is not the greatest, I'd recommend an external speaker for better 300-3000Hz response. Other than that, very solid radios.

 

[hill]

The H-K is 450-520Mhz
The H-K2 is 400-470MHz. Pretty sure both are part 95-E certified.

Only the 450-520 30!watt radio has Part 95.

Petty sure this correct off the top of my head, but McKenna knows for sure and will likely chime in.

 

[hill]

NX700

Guess you mean NX-800. The NX-700 are VHF and NX-800 are UHF in a few band splits.

Don't think the NX-800 has Part 95 for GMRS.

 

[mmckenna]

Kenwood TK8180H-K, TK-8180H-K2 both 45-ish watts. 512 channels, 128 zones.

The H-K is 450-520Mhz
The H-K2 is 400-470MHz. Pretty sure both are part 95-E certified.

The "H" models (45 watts) don't have Part 95 in either bandsplit, unfortunately.

On the 30 watt non-H models, only the 450-520MHz model has Part 95, and it's technically only Part 95A which covers GMRS, but the other Personal Radio Services as well, even though they don't cover the others ones, and do not meet the FRS rules by any stretch.

I've got the NX-700 VHF mobile in my wife's truck and it's a good radio. I had a KRK-10 remote head kit, so that made installation easy. Unfortunately the KRK-10's are going for absolutely stupid prices on the used market right now. Last one I saw was close to $200.
They do sound good with a good external speaker.

 

[mmckenna]

Guess you mean NX-800. The NX-700 are VHF and NX-800 are UHF in a few band splits.

Don't think the NX-800 has Part 95 for GMRS.

They don't. But they are great radios for amateur use.

 

[kayn1n32008]

Guess you mean NX-800. The NX-700 are VHF and NX-800 are UHF in a few band splits.

Don't think the NX-800 has Part 95 for GMRS.

Nope. NX700, I had one in my work truck for years working in the oil patch. I had back up ham stuff in it as well. Mentioned it because the NX-x00 and TK-x180 are quite similar radios.

 

[kayn1n32008]

Only the 450-520 30!watt radio has Part 95.

Petty sure this correct off the top of my head, but McKenna knows for sure and will likely chime in.

I thought they all did. Regardless, the TK-8180 is a really decent analogue radio, and they are fairly inexpensive.

 

[K9KLC]

For HT radio to radio simplex maybe.

Maybe in some environments, I know before MURS came to be, when they were "DOT" frequencies a fellow came in needing some HT's to talk abound a race track. We tried the DOT frequencies on VHF and it was a NO go. Got him some Business UHF stuff in the 464 area, and he had no problems getting it done. Probably in a more friendly RF environment they might have worked better but frankly we never tried.

 

[merlin]

Don't forget you can always use MURS equipment the way I do also but nobody's around I live in southeastern Wisconsin and not a peep on any of the channels anymore other than those Garmin Astro dog collars that's about it Hopefully that picks up though and I'll hear more voice traffic if it comes through!!!!!!!

MURS has its downsides. 5, VHF channels, 2 watt limit, and no repeaters. It is just about a dead band, go ahead and run
more power, no call sign, do what you like.
Scanning MURS here, not a peep in close to a year.

 

[merlin]

Hi @Coffeemug and thanks for your comment. Not entirely off-topic since the theme of my thread is to be compliant with the FCC rules and regulations. As I am finding out, in the GMRS area, compliance is easier said than done. There are so few Part 95E radios out there that I can understand how easy it would be to just program any “unlocked” radio for GMRS and have at it.

One thing that I’ve not gotten an answer to, and contacting the FCC is probably needed here, “are previously type accepted Part 95 radios that are no longer in the FCC’s database still legal to use for GMRS?” I probably know what the FCC’s answer will be, further decreasing the number of type accepted radios in the GMRS world. It is getting darker the further I go down this rabbit hole…

I am sure a good many radios comply with part 95 that have never gon through FCC testing. Also, once approved, they still would be even if removed from FCC database.

 

[chaosofthelaw]

Yes, interesting discussion. I commend @K4EET for wanting to be legal, no matter how difficult it is. Others have said it in the past, and I agree, that the FCC should change the rules and allow any Part 90 radio to be used in Part 95E as long as it otherwise meets Part 95E rules.

Looking at the brochure for the Kenwood TK-8180 (yes, it's not a current radio), what features could Kenwood remove, possibly through a firmware revision or a reduced feature set in the programming software, to make the radio more viable for GMRS.

• 45 watt version -- legal on GMRS, but would the 30 watt version be adequate?
• FleetSync -- not needed
• LTR -- not needed
• Zones in memory programming -- useful, but a frill for most GMRS users
• MPT1327 -- not needed
• Remote head -- a frill, but useful in some mounting situations
• Alphanumeric memory names -- useful
• 3-digit sub display -- if you don't have zones, this is unnecessary
• Date and time clock -- a frill
• Companded audio -- not necessary (would this be legal on GMRS?)
• Voice inversion -- not necessary (would this be legal on GMRS?)
• Option port -- what options? VGS-1? Not necessary. GPS receiver? Not necessary. Modem? Not necessary.
• Encryption -- not legal on GMRS
• DTMF Encode/Decode -- for what purpose on GMRS?
• Special Alert Tone Patterns, 2-tone decode -- probably not necessary on GMRS
• TOT, BCLO, APO -- useful features
• DB-25 accessory connector, programmable I/Os -- probably not useful for most GMRS users
• Ignition sense -- would GMRS users use this?
• PA/Horn Alert -- might be useful to GMRS users
• Mil-spec mic -- keep this
• Cloning -- keep this
• Mil-spec housing, IP54/55 -- keep this
• OST -- keep this
• Scanning features -- keep this
• MDC-1200 -- only useful to set the user apart from the cheap, Chinese radios that don't have this feature.

How many of these features could simply be turned off in firmware or "disappeared" in the KPG programming software? Without these features, could Kenwood build an affordable "TK-8181G"? Yes, I know, Kenwood isn't likely to jump on the GMRS bandwagon. But, it's fun to speculate.

View attachment 184593

My family and a group of our friends use fleetsync on gmrs.

 

[hill]

Zones in memory programming -- useful, but a frill for most GMRS users

I use zones on all my Kenwood radios. It best not to have to many channels in each to be able locate them easily.

My radios are generally programmed with a zone with channels of known repeaters. The zone has channels in it with named GMRS repeaters.

Another zone will contain the standard GMRS frequencies/channels that mainly use with OST.

Another zone will be receive only channels. These are mainly local mall security for when near them. Plus one local county that has fire dispatch on UHF.

In closing I kind tend on only put 16 or less channels in each zone. Even for radios that don't have a stop and have a continuous channel selection this method works best for me.

 

[prcguy]

MURS has its downsides. 5, VHF channels, 2 watt limit, and no repeaters. It is just about a dead band, go ahead and run
more power, no call sign, do what you like.
Scanning MURS here, not a peep in close to a year.

MURS is nearly unusable in my area, all channels but one have continuous high power voice and data on them and the quiet channels is still super busy. Range is very short due to getting clobbered by the high power commercial users.

A local park was looking for a radio solution and I loaned them some handhelds on the quiet MURS channel here. After a few days of testing over an area about 50 acres they gave up as it was not reliable due to interference.

 

[Echo4Thirty]

All of the features listed are programmable. If you don't want them, don't program them in KPG.

The 8180 and 3180 are in my opinion the best radios for GMRS. I have handed them to non technical folks and they were not overwhelmed yet they have enough "geek" features for me and are legal on GMRS. They are cheap enough to dedicate to GMRS without tying up my other radios.

 

[hill]

All of the features listed are programmable. If you don't want them, don't program them in KPG.

The 8180 and 3180 are in my opinion the best radios for GMRS. I have handed them to non technical folks and they were not overwhelmed yet they have enough "geek" features for me and are legal on GMRS. They are cheap enough to dedicate to GMRS without tying up my other radios

Echo4Thirty and I are in total agreement on these radios being best for GMRS use.

You can dumb down the radio features if you need to have someone in family use it that is not a radio user. Like no zones, scan and not having the buttons programmed.

 

[W8UU]

Kenwood makes exceptional radios. I have a TK-790 at home and in the car for ham and commercial use and a TK-890 for GMRS.