Sentinel DB missing some LTR systems

[kruser]

I decided to play around with some business monitoring last evening with my HP-1E. Mainly LTR type systems.

I searched the database here at RR for all the LTR systems in my county. I came up with maybe 14 or so for St. Louis County, MO.

When I looked in Sentinel, only six of the systems could be found. I searched in St. Louis County and City parts of the Sentinel database but IE Communications was not found. I was still on last weeks Sentinel DB so I then updated to this weeks version (11/17/2013) even though the systems I was looking for have been around for years.

Going back and looking at the database again for my county, I did see some did not have confirmed LCN's for some systems or no Talkgroups.
So I wrote those off as Sentinel just did not include them as parts needed were missing. No big deal I figured for those system.

But... one system in particular (there are others but I left them out for simplicity) seems to be active and has several confirmed sites and many talkgroups. Yet I cannot find it listed when I look in Sentinel which I did update after I looked from last weeks version first but the system is not listed. If it is, I sure could not find it!

That system is located here:

IE Communications 800 (Metro StL/So. IL) Trunking System, St. Louis/Southern IL, Multi-State - Scanner Frequencies

If anyone else can find this system in their Sentinel database, please tell me where it was found as I sure can't find it under Missouri/St. Louis County or City or any of the other sites locations listed in other Missouri or Illinois counties as the system shows here at the RadioReference database I linked above.

I can import this system and all sites into a 996XT or even a 780XLT but only with ArcXT Pro for the 996XT and ProScan for the 780XLT.

Both those scanners do track and monitor this system just fine so I assume the HP1 should also be able to track this system. If I could only find it in Sentinel so I could add it into a Favorite.

Anyone, (UPMan), know why this system does not show up in Sentinel's database?
I think it did at one time many months ago but I've not monitored it in months so no idea when it may have disappeared from Sentinel's database.

Thanks Everyone

 

[GTR8000]

IE Communications 800 (Metro StL/So. IL) is an LTR MultiNet system, which no scanner can track. That's why it's not included in the Sentinel download.

 

[kruser]

IE Communications 800 (Metro StL/So. IL) is an LTR MultiNet system, which no scanner can track. That's why it's not included in the Sentinel download.

Yep, I noticed that after I'd made the post. It was odd as my others (996 396 etc) seemed to be tracking the site just fine. Then I noticed the talkgroups I thought I was tracking were always coming up on the same frequency even with one radio held on the talkgroup and two scanning the frequency used stayed the same. It seems this site will keep using the last frequency used for a given talkgroup unless someone else happens to get that frequency when my held talkgroup is silent.
Being the time of evening it is, the entire system is pretty quiet except for a few users so it was not easy to spot that it was not really tracking anything.
My mistake for not noticing the 'multinet' type.

 

[GTR8000]

No problem, you raised a valid question.

On the same topic, the HP-1's database will not include any trunked systems that have no talkgroups in the RRDB. It will also not import systems that have talkgroup modes it can't process, such as a P25 Phase II system that has all TDMA talkgroups (mode T on the RRDB page).

 

[kruser]

Yep, I just missed the Multinet part on this one.
But... the more I monitor this system on a 996XT, the more I wonder if it should not be included in Sentinel's DB. Even though the scanners are tracking (scanning) the system more like a bunch of conventional repeaters.
They do decode the TGID and display the talkgroup name if it is programmed or display the TGID numbers if not programmed as long as you are in a search mode.
I've not tried manually entering anything from this system into Sentinel but I assume the HP1 would still decode the TGID's like the other models are.
Maybe these multinet type LTR systems should be included with the Sentinel database pull so the users would at least know who they are hearing instead of nothing at all?
Then maybe the yellow info disclaimer window could be shown as it is for those sites or systems that have rebanded or those that carry some P25 phase II talkgroups. Something along the lines of "This site is an LTR Multinet site and cannot be tracked properly" or something similar.
Kind of like monitoring an old analog Motorola site without a trunk tracking scanner! That worked great on sites with little traffic.

Well, maybe that idea is not so good as Sentinel only users would likely never see that disclaimer anyway unless they are also members and happen to view the system page.

I still think the info should be available to Sentinel users but I can understand why it is not. The HP1 has enough display area that a short 'not trackable' message could be added on one of the three lines for a multinet system. Put that message at the system level or top line of the HP display so users know they can monitor but not properly track.

I guess it is nice this info is included here in the RR database at least so one that stumbles across a multinet site can at least look it up if it has been submitted

I did know the HP1 would not import a site with no talkgroups listed but maybe those sites should also be included so Sentinel users could watch for new talkgroups. Of course only for sites with a known and confirmed LCN order.
LTR itself is an odd animal if you ask me. That's probably why I don't monitor them much. Of course we don't have a lot of LTR activity here. At least not much that carries much worth monitoring but I have found some of my business users that have moved to LTR over the years.
Had I not looked them up by frequency and found them here, I'd have likely never realized they were even on an LTR system the way they seem to stay on the same frequency. I'm sure that does change when the systems are actually busy but everything I'm hearing tonight has came up on the same frequency each time a particular TG talks!
I'm monitoring one of the sites that has 8 frequencies listed but each company that is still talking tonight, comes up on the same frequency every time they have talked. I do hear CWID's on these frequencies but they have other TGID's, otherwise I've not seen any of the other users come up on a different frequency. The 996 does still honor the TG I'm held on as it will not open the audio path but the other 996 will open audio as I have it searching. So even though they cannot track a multinet system, they do still decode the TG correctly.

Oh well, just a bunch of thoughts!