Serious HomePatrol Concerns - Is it really ready for prime time?

[KE4ZNR]

And again, maybe you didn't understand what I said, but if you read back and look you will see I fault the RR data, not the HP.

You laid the blame right at Uniden's feet for what are mistakes in the RR.com database. And you continue to do that below. But whatever helps you sleep at night.

What I said is that until the data is right, the product should have been held back.

Now that is funny! You do realize that the "data will never be 100% right", correct? Which means that NO scanner (GRE or Uniden) with the ability to download RR.com database info would ever be released again. We do the best we can with the data available. See there is a method to Uniden's madness here: As more people use the HomePatrol and more problem spots are found in the RR.com database, that means that more corrections are submitted which means the RR.com database gets more accurate and better for EVERYONE, not just the HP-1 users. That means that Uniden is helping the entire hobby (including GRE radio users) by helping make the RR.com database more accurate.

Sorry if that rubs anyone the wrong way. I admire quality innovation, not half-baked ideas. I see the potential in the device, and again I hope it can work once the DB info is cleaned up. However, I'm not a fan of no code, either. There is no excuse for the lazy. And yes, the bands have gone to the dogs. It is nothing more than glorified CB anymore. Anyone who has been around can see the difference. Sad, truly sad. No effort equals no gain.

I have no idea about what you are rambling on about in the above paragraph. Who is lazy? I see both GRE & Uniden trying to innovate in a limited marketplace. New features released in the last few years include Close Call/Signal Stalker, Fire Tone Out Decode, NAC Decoding, One Freq Trunking, RID/UID display, etc. I would not call either GRE or Uniden lazy. Both are trying their damnest to be competitive. And as far as "the Bands" I am not quite sure what "effort" Uniden or GRE should make as far as that goes. Little bit unclear at what point you were going with there.

BTW- Those lat and lons are not very good. This is what I calculate (pic below). The main "EAST" system is in the center (really three simulcast sites in three areas of the county) with 19 mile range to each corner, The "WEST" IR tower covers SR 70 and CR 68 out west (not much traffic at all...the main system covers the county well enough, but it is there...sort of a waste...for portable coverage I guess) say 7 miles or so. The Port St. Lucie TG lat/lons are down in the SE with 8 mile range, and the Ft. Pierce up NE at 5 miles. All have some overlap, but I tried to keep it tight as possible for someone who really wants to control efficient channel usage. Oh...and the nuke plant system out on the barrier island is something you can hear over 30 miles away. You want to know when that place has a problem. I submitted a ton of info on that system too. I was glad to see it in Sentinel. A new improved TG list and CC list was just submitted with the actual lat/lon, as well.

a

I'm here to help too. I imagine you area (in the snow) is in good shape with you working on it. Every area needs someone to take care of it. That is also what I was saying.

Thank you for the correct and valuable info!
Correct & Verified info like what you have above is what will help RR.com become more accurate and in turn what will make ALL Radios work accurately from the HP-1s owned by "Joes" to the Pro 106s/BCD396XT/BCD996XTs owned by us Uber Radio Geeks

SOFA_KING: I know you have helped out here alot at RR.com with Federal stuff (thanks for the amazing work with those fed files) and beyond and rest assured my replies were meant to help everyone understand that, though no radio is perfect, the HP-1 has overwhelmingly gotten positive feedback from the initial "Joe" market it has been targeted towards. And that "Joe" market will help make the RR.com database better for everyone. And Uniden, rest assured, has not forgotten the "Power User".

Happy Monitoring to all
Marshall KE4ZNR

 

[EJB]

I dont get all the negative or cautionary posts about this scanner. Even if it does do a medicore job with its Zip code function you can easily take all the wonderful information that this site has and update it pretty much every weak from the Sentinel software.
This way you can do the progeamming yourself and not feel like you are 'dogging it' by spending good $ on a HP 1 and not a 'harder, expert scanner" like any of the GRE and Uniden 396/996 family.

The data base here is a gold mine and does a darn good job at providing me with stuff to listen to in the most populated region of Canada.

 

[SOFA_KING]

I dont get all the negative or cautionary posts about this scanner. Even if it does do a medicore job with its Zip code function you can easily take all the wonderful information that this site has and update it pretty much every weak from the Sentinel software.
This way you can do the progeamming yourself and not feel like you are 'dogging it' by spending good $ on a HP 1 and not a 'harder, expert scanner" like any of the GRE and Uniden 396/996 family.

The data base here is a gold mine and does a darn good job at providing me with stuff to listen to in the most populated region of Canada.

"You" can't update this scanner. You are at the mercy of whatever is in the database. That is the issue. The updates come from those who do the work on "real scanners". I imagine some areas of the country, where someone takes the time to submit accurate info, will be better listening than others. But if "Joe Scanner" happens to be in an area that has no "expert scanner guy" providing RR with accurate information, you're screwed.

And again my point was missed. "Beginner Joe Scanner" has no way to know he is missing anything, so there is no genious method to any madness that these people are going to improve the RR database. They are NOT the ones who will know anything, much less what to update in the database. If they don't learn a d@mn thing about scanning, and have no tools in the scanner to expand if they wanted to, it's a loss. (See? they need to buy another scanner. {wink wink}...more $$$ for Uniden! Fat chance they will do that IMHO.) What would have served the scanning community MUCH better would have been a full featured scanner, like the 996XT (same price!), with the HP function built in. Then they could advance in the hobby and become a provider of information if they were interested in doing so, but it is really all about selling expensive scanners to the crackers (gang-banging drugsters and speed freaks) and the couch potato slackers who will contribute nothing to the database or grow the hobby. The numbers of sales were dropping, and this was someone's idea to increase sales...that is all.

My interest in this box is travel. I'll admit it...It is an expensive toy for me. I would have preferred a 996XT if it had the RR database feature, with GPS tracking, to fall back on when outside my area of refined programming. I'm gonna guess that this will be the "next" scanner Uniden comes up with. They have always looked to spoon-feed scanner improvements at $500+ a pop. That is why I like GRE better. I don't feel like I'm being sold the "next scanner" over and over again. I'm very happy with GRE scanners. Uniden has always left something to be desired...so they can sell more. I hate that! And Uniden sits on patents so other scanner companies can't use the idea, like GPS. Anyone remember the GPS RD? THANK GOD Escort finally got around that patent roadblock! The GPS RD was a piece of junk (good idea that was very poorly implemented). The Escort 9500 series is a masterpiece and really works! I would buy a GRE GPS enabled scanner in a heartbeat over this HP if they were able to make one. Somehow, I don't think we will see one due to proprietary patents. Just my guess.

Anyway, I'll do what I can do to help. Always have...always will.

 

[megraham]

I know there probably are some issues (there always are with anything). I've had many programmable scanners over the years and recently purchased a HP. To tell you the truth, this scanner has been used more than any other one I have owned. I look forward to turning it on as it has worked better than all the rest. (Of course, I may have missed some of the frequencies that I have gotten now from RR).

A note to anyone, if there are issues that you don't like about the scanner or database, don't purchase the scanner or use the database. I know that the people that are involved with the database are putting a lot of time and effort into this and my hats go off to them. We can only improve it by submitting and working with the people involved with the database.

Keep up the excellent work on everything involved with improving the database and the HomePatrol.

 

[EJB]

"You" can't update this scanner. You are at the mercy of whatever is in the database. That is the issue. The updates come from those who do the work on "real scanners". I imagine some areas of the country, where someone takes the time to submit accurate info, will be better listening than others. But if "Joe Scanner" happens to be in an area that has no "expert scanner guy" providing RR with accurate information, you're screwed.

And again my point was missed. "Beginner Joe Scanner" has no way to know he is missing anything, so there is no genious method to any madness that these people are going to improve the RR database. They are NOT the ones who will know anything, much less what to update in the database. If they don't learn a d@mn thing about scanning, and have no tools in the scanner to expand if they wanted to, it's a loss. (See? they need to buy another scanner. {wink wink}...more $$$ for Uniden! Fat chance they will do that IMHO.) What would have served the scanning community MUCH better would have been a full featured scanner, like the 996XT (same price!), with the HP function built in. Then they could advance in the hobby and become a provider of information if they were interested in doing so, but it is really all about selling expensive scanners to the crackers (gang-banging drugsters and speed freaks) and the couch potato slackers who will contribute nothing to the database or grow the hobby. The numbers of sales were dropping, and this was someone's idea to increase sales...that is all.

My interest in this box is travel. I'll admit it...It is an expensive toy for me. I would have preferred a 996XT if it had the RR database feature, with GPS tracking, to fall back on when outside my area of refined programming. I'm gonna guess that this will be the "next" scanner Uniden comes up with. They have always looked to spoon-feed scanner improvements at $500+ a pop. That is why I like GRE better. I don't feel like I'm being sold the "next scanner" over and over again. I'm very happy with GRE scanners. Uniden has always left something to be desired...so they can sell more. I hate that! And Uniden sits on patents so other scanner companies can't use the idea, like GPS. Anyone remember the GPS RD? THANK GOD Escort finally got around that patent roadblock! The GPS RD was a piece of junk (good idea that was very poorly implemented). The Escort 9500 series is a masterpiece and really works! I would buy a GRE GPS enabled scanner in a heartbeat over this HP if they were able to make one. Somehow, I don't think we will see one due to proprietary patents. Just my guess.

Anyway, I'll do what I can do to help. Always have...always will.

My friend: You are entitled to your opinion on GRE scanners. My opinion is that they leave a lot to be desired. The handheld my friend lent me between scanners was a digital GRE newer model. It was bulky, the plastic shell felt clunky and the digital decoding left a great deal to be desired. So many people say that GRE items sound better than Uniden when it comes to P25 audio. Maybe my hearing leaves a lot to be desired (I work in the music industry) but I think anyone who says that the GRE portables are better than the Uniden 396T and XT are full of it.

The Home Patrol has the best audio I have ever heard in a scanner. The screen is easy to manipulate and there is more than enough room to put in all the soft Id's and talkgroup information that anyone can dream off. While the 396T has its issues and is not sensitve it does the best job I think of balancing P25 audio and analog audio on my mixed VHF Hi provincial system, I do not have to lower the volume for P25 and raise the volume for analog.

As for Uniden holding patents, why is anyone in the US of A complaining about certain corporations witholding information from its rivals? 2 years of so-called socialism of Obama hasnt brainwashed too many minds, lol. Why should Uniden give up its patents and secrets and advantages without any profit anyway?

Ideally the Home Patrol 1 is for the advanced user, a companion scanner. So many members here list their scanners here and IMO the HP 1 is a perfect scanner to compliment the 996/396 Uniden series and Whatever the Shack and GRE call their recent scanners.

Yes it is dependent on the database but this database is pretty damm good. You can always buy the ARC software that IMO again, blows away anything that GRE and the PRO series use.

It is also a darn good scanner for beginners. Just because it 'does' a lot of the 'work' doesnt mean that the listener will not want to search out information. If anything I think that this scanner will make the casual listener to become more involved in this hobby.

Just my 2 cents. I dont expect my post to change your mind but I would always choose this HP one over anything that GRE makes these days.

 

[fullmoon]

I think the database is excellent..All I can go by is my "area"..RR has everything and more...

 

[dcfox]

If you don't like the scanner then don't buy it, come on people. I personally like it much better then any scanner i owned. Yes the RR data base need work in areas that people do not submit so submit it.

 

[randybcd396t]

I too think the scanner is great.

I also like the RR DB. I used it as my main source prior to getting the HP1. Since the HP1 came out, there has been a lot of DB updates, so it is getting better all of the time.

 

[hfxChris]

My only issue thus far is a few missing Canadian postal codes...

 

[randybcd396t]

My only issue thus far is a few missing Canadian postal codes...

UPMan should be able to easily fix that. Did you let him know what is missing?

 

[SOFA_KING]

I just check the latest HP database download in Sentinel. Still no improvement. Although a bunch of "Future" TG's might have been added...I don't remember seeing that many "FUTURE" TGs. I say take those out, as most are reserve TG's and not in use. And the digitals are still not there (yes UPman...they are marked "other"). This "submit a ticket" thing is not working for me. I try to make it clear what needs to be done, but the person doing the updating isn't getting it. I could just do it myself if the powers that be let me. If trying to get things fixed becomes too much of a headache, by having to submit over and over again, I'm done. No point in beating my head against a wall.

Most of the problems I have issues with are like these...location. I checked a few places. Not good. I don't know who set the initial lat/lons, but they are out of wack in many places. I can't check the whole state!That ain't gonna work. St. Lucie County center is set outside the county up near Fellsmere! (see pictures) This is the county conventional freqs lat/lon. The lat/lon pin at the top is where Sentinel has my county center. My crosshairs are where the lat/lon should be set. All county services, conventional or trunked, should be set where the crosshairs are....center of the county. You got some serious quality issues going on here. Do you see what I mean now?

To all the HP fanboys out there who just "love" the database, you might want to get to work and start checking your areas. Chances are you don't know what you are missing. The only thing a HomePatrol scanner owner can do (one who doesn't search and test the data out with a real scanner) is complain about it. Someone needs to do the work to fix it, and that is not going to be "Joe HP".

My HP just arrived with GPS. I will be testing it out.

 

[UPMan]

I have submitted a request to change the location data for that county. Looks like someone got confused with one county to the north.

Here is the contents of my submission (basically the format I use every time for location changes, and they all get worked, without confusion, within 24 hours):

Correct the St Lucie County coordinates to:

27.378616, -80.430227, 19.75 Miles (the current coordinates are off by one county to the north)

Thank you for bringing this to our attention.

 

[SOFA_KING]

I have submitted a request to change the location data for that county. Looks like someone got confused with one county to the north.

Here is the contents of my submission (basically the format I use every time for location changes, and they all get worked, without confusion, within 24 hours):



Thank you for bringing this to our attention.

Thank you, Paul.

The ticket I submitted said the same (days ago), plus a whole bunch of other stuff, all itemized paragraph by paragraph. Very neat and to the point. Is there any quality control other than the users?

Phil

 

[fullmoon]

Let us know how it works Sofa...

 

[UPMan]

I know that the admin group does their best to decipher and implement all verified reports. Having admin'd the database for a while, though (no longer), I can say that lengthy submissions usually get deferred to the weekend (just about everyone has a day job, and can pop out for 5 minutes now and then to work a submission...but if it looks like a 30-minute job then it sits until the admin has 30 minutes to devote). Even though it is a little more work for the submitter (but not by much) it is usually best to keep each individual request to a small set of changes.

Also, for new channels or changes to channels it is important to indicate that you have personally verified the channel usage. Lots of lists float around with partial, old, or just incorrect information. Part of the QC check each admin is supposed to do is to verify with the submitter that the submission is based on their direct experience and not just "some list." If the submission doesn't say one way or the other, then it will likely result in a delay while the admin communicates back to the submitter (some admins just reject the submission with a note to resubmit with such details added).

 

[SOFA_KING]

Thanks, Paul.

I was really asking about the lat/lons. Who does those?

Well I only submit solid information I have verified. Never a bogus list off the internet! The only thing I might have trouble IDing is a TG name. I get the department right, but without the actual templates, or a radio in hand, you never know what they call it...unless you are lucky enough to hear someone say it. EDIT: Paul, I just noticed your lat/lon you submitted differs from my calculations. Why did you not use the ones I verified?

Well, fullmoon, I have it plugged in and making noise. Sounds good, maybe it bit dark or thin in tone. The scan delay is too short. The scanner starts scanning again on fire call-out tones with a gap before they send the dispatch announcement. You get the tones, and then the scanner gets locked on another active channel, so you miss the call. P25 audio is very good, and the AGC does a nice job. The GPS is working fine with my Garmin Rino 130 FRS/GPS handheld (in the house). It scans pretty fast. I had one paging intermod and before I could reach over and hit the avoid it started scanning again (scan delay issue). I finally cuaght it and got to the avoid screen, and saw the three avoid option buttons, but it started scanning before I could select one of them...needs a bit more screen time, I would say. I have to explore all the options. Maybe I can customize some of this. Tried the squelch, as it sounded a little tight. Glad to see that it can be opened and set where I like it (lose), but miss the CTCSS/DCS/NAC display. I really wish they added that so I can verify missing tones...and maybe make it flash if it search-locks a tone on an open channel...and give the option to store it (wishfull thinking).

It is a bit early to give it the full review. But I really think RR needs a better way to handle changes. Even if there was a admin version of Sentinel to allow advanced users to edit everything that needs fixin' and sync it to the RR database. That is what I need to get things cleaned up...not some "submit, wait and hope they get it right" ticket system.

I just noticed a glitch from Martin County Fire Dispatch...The HP stoped on a fire dispatch on the VHF simulcast (from the TRS) freq and is not stopping on the TRS Fire Dispatch TG. Something is wrong here. I get all the SO stuff on on that TRS. It should stop on either/or dispatch channels. Look guys, I'm not even really looking for all these things yet. I just know how this area should work. How much more is there that needs fixin'? EDIT: EMS TG 13168 on the Martin County TRS is set to analog when it should be P25...I know a ham who reported this issue on this system (all were analog). I guess whoever did the update missed this one. This is going to be a long haul to get all this cleaned up.

 

[exkalibur]

Now that is funny! You do realize that the "data will never be 100% right", correct?

I don't see any reason why this has to be true. I certainly can't speak for all database administrators, but the ones who help keep my local area up to date do a fantastic job and I can say that most of the databases around the Toronto area are up to date and as correct as you're ever going to get.

The database is only as 'correct' as the data that users submit. I've seen some submissions get posted which are absolutely false and not even close to being accurate. Again, the administrators up this way have been great to correct those entries as soon as the error is pointed out.

I think a lot of the 'responsibility' lies with the user submissions. Instead of submitting 'everything', it is much more productive to contribute things which you have verified as being true and correct. It doesn't take much to verify information these days.

That is really the only way we're going to get a "correct" database.

That said, I think Uniden did both a great thing and a horrible thing to the hobby with this Home Patrol scanner.

It's great as it'll bring some new life into the hobby and make it accessible to people who don't want to fuss with software and all that. However, the "no go" for me is that you are at the mercy of the RR database (for now). I can't help but wonder what sort of kick backs this site is getting from Uniden. Must be insanely good.

 

[UPMan]

Administrator MikeOxlong just worked my submission. He also cleaned up the trunked system. In his words, "It was probably one of the worst systems I have ever seen." I let him know that you had a submission in, too, in case he missed it (or another admin "owned" it before he could get to it, which would make it disappear from the "to-do" list).

I'll do a special dB pull tonight. Just for you!

 

[KE4ZNR]

With all due respect exkalibur you must have quit reading my post after that one sentence. If you had continued reading you would have seen where my posted thoughts fully agree with your statements.
By the way that one sentence I made was in response to Sofa_Kings statement:

Originally Posted by SOFA_KING
What I said is that until the data is right, the product should have been held back.

Unless I misread his statement his (kind of absurd) assertion was that the HP-1 should not have been released until the RR.com database "data was right".

Now my response:

Now that is funny! You do realize that the "data will never be 100% right", correct? Which means that NO scanner (GRE or Uniden) with the ability to download RR.com database info would ever be released again. We do the best we can with the data available. See there is a method to Uniden's madness here: As more people use the HomePatrol and more problem spots are found in the RR.com database, that means that more corrections are submitted which means the RR.com database gets more accurate and better for EVERYONE, not just the HP-1 users. That means that Uniden is helping the entire hobby (including GRE radio users) by helping make the RR.com database more accurate.

Hope this puts my statement (where I agreed with you) in better perspective
Happy Monitoring (and HPing) to all!
Marshall KE4ZNR

I don't see any reason why this has to be true. I certainly can't speak for all database administrators, but the ones who help keep my local area up to date do a fantastic job and I can say that most of the databases around the Toronto area are up to date and as correct as you're ever going to get.

The database is only as 'correct' as the data that users submit. I've seen some submissions get posted which are absolutely false and not even close to being accurate. Again, the administrators up this way have been great to correct those entries as soon as the error is pointed out.

I think a lot of the 'responsibility' lies with the user submissions. Instead of submitting 'everything', it is much more productive to contribute things which you have verified as being true and correct. It doesn't take much to verify information these days.

That is really the only way we're going to get a "correct" database.

That said, I think Uniden did both a great thing and a horrible thing to the hobby with this Home Patrol scanner.

It's great as it'll bring some new life into the hobby and make it accessible to people who don't want to fuss with software and all that. However, the "no go" for me is that you are at the mercy of the RR database (for now). I can't help but wonder what sort of kick backs this site is getting from Uniden. Must be insanely good.

 

[KE4ZNR]

It is a bit early to give it the full review. But I really think RR needs a better way to handle changes. Even if there was a admin version of Sentinel to allow advanced users to edit everything that needs fixin' and sync it to the RR database. That is what I need to get things cleaned up...not some "submit, wait and hope they get it right" ticket system.

There are very good reasons why not everyone has access to make RR.com database changes. The whole integrity of the database would be compromised. Database admins are screened and vetted to make sure they are the right people for the job.
The submission process has worked well for RR.com. As UPMan said above, some long submissions with a lot of info have to be put on the back burner till later in the evening or until the weekend but most should be handled same day.
Is it a perfect system? No. But it is a heck of a lot better than the chaos that would ensue if everyone and anyone was allowed to make their own database changes.
Happy Monitoring
Marshall KE4ZNR