Simulcast distortion question

[KK2DOG]

Jefferson County New York will very soon go live with their new 12-tower P-25 phase 2 system. I've been told that the closest tower to me is about 5-6 miles west of me and the next closest is about 15 miles north of me. I am using a couple of Whistler 1080 scanners and I was wondering how this simulcast distortion thing might play-out here. The other 10 towers are way south of me. I guess I'll find-out pretty soon!

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

You might need to get a decent Yagi and point it to the closest site.

 

[hiegtx]

Jefferson County New York will very soon go live with their new 12-tower P-25 phase 2 system. I've been told that the closest tower to me is about 5-6 miles west of me and the next closest is about 15 miles north of me. I am using a couple of Whistler 1080 scanners and I was wondering how this simulcast distortion thing might play-out here. The other 10 towers are way south of me. I guess I'll find-out pretty soon!

Like RFI, I see a yagi (directional antenna) in your future.

Pointing it at the closest site might provide enough signal that the scanner will ignore the simulcast distortion. But if that does not do well, then look for a map of the actual site locations. Generally, you can access that here on RadioReference. You may need to find one of the sites, not necessarily the closest, that is farthest away from the directions of the other sites.

 

[R0am3r]

Do you know the frequencies they will be using?

 

[iMONITOR]

Sometimes you can improve it as others said by using a YAGI antenna to improve the signal on one tower over the others. But I've also had very good results by doing the exact opposite by minimizing the antenna so it doesn't even pick up tower sites that are further out. My favorite is the Comet Miracle Baby CH-32.

Amazon.com: Comet Original CH32 CH-32 144/440/900 MHz Tri-Band Miracle Baby Handheld Antenna - BNC Connector: Electronics

Amazon.com: Comet Original CH32 CH-32 144/440/900 MHz Tri-Band Miracle Baby Handheld Antenna - BNC Connector: Electronics

www.amazon.com

 

[iMONITOR]

delete

 

[jonwienke]

Or you could get one of the Uniden SDS models which are designed specifically for simulcast, and use your current scanners to monitor other things.

 

[N8IAA]

Or, you could just put in the tower closest to you, and not any of the other towers. Along with the CHB32. Has always worked for me.

Or you could get one of the Uniden SDS models which are designed specifically for simulcast, and use your current scanners to monitor other things.

Why would he want to do that when he already owns a scanner??

 

[jonwienke]

For the same reason you buy a Phillips screwdriver even if you own a flat. If you're trying to turn Phillips head screws, its the right tool for the job.

None of the other recommendations are guaranteed to work, and the antenna setup needed to isolate one tower of a simulcast site will necessarily fubar receiving other stuff. So kludging a selective antenna is still going to require a second antenna and receiver if you want to hear other stuff on the same band.

 

[R8000]

Or, you could just put in the tower closest to you, and not any of the other towers.

Um, this is not how simulcast works.

 

[gshapp]

For the Onondaga County Simulcast system, using a 6 element yagi pointed at a tower with the most other towers on the back side of the beam. Do not want to point the beam in the direction of multiple towers. Takes a little experimenting to get the right direction. Check out the feed, Onondaga County and Syracuse Fire, simulcast system.

 

[iMONITOR]

For the same reason you buy a Phillips screwdriver even if you own a flat. If you're trying to turn Phillips head screws, its the right tool for the job.

None of the other recommendations are guaranteed to work, and the antenna setup needed to isolate one tower of a simulcast site will necessarily fubar receiving other stuff. So kludging a selective antenna is still going to require a second antenna and receiver if you want to hear other stuff on the same band.

Works for me! I own two 996P2's and a 536HP and they all work perfect on the 12 site simulcast system in Macomb County, MI. And yes I bought and compared them with a SRS200, no noticable differecne! So why spend twice as much on an SRS scanner if you don't need/have to?

 

[jaspence]

Ask jon if to pay for the new scanner.

 

[jonwienke]

Ask jon if to pay for the new scanner.

No, just like none of you are offering to pay for yagi antennas or any of the solutions you are suggesting, or offering money-back guarantees if they don't help.

@iMONITOR:
There are locations where non-SDR scanners like the x36 or other brands will pick up a simulcast site just fine. And other locations where they totally choke on it, regardless of what antenna tricks you play. And in those locations, the SDS scanners work great.

Try running a SDS100 and 436HP head-to-head off the same antenna in a vehicle in an area with multiple simulcast systems and sites. You'll quickly see what I mean. The 436HP will cut in and out as conditions change, while the SDS100 just consistently works.

Which brings up another point. None of the antenna-related suggestions (directional antenna, attenuation, etc.) work for a vehicle. But a SDS scanner does.

And why, if you already have X scanners (especially if X > 1), is having X + 1 scanners such a controversial idea?

 

[iMONITOR]

No, just like none of you are offering to pay for yagi antennas or any of the solutions you are suggesting, or offering money-back guarantees if they don't help.

@iMONITOR:
There are locations where non-SDR scanners like the x36 or other brands will pick up a simulcast site just fine. And other locations where they totally choke on it, regardless of what antenna tricks you play. And in those locations, the SDS scanners work great.

Try running a SDS100 and 436HP head-to-head off the same antenna in a vehicle in an area with multiple simulcast systems and sites. You'll quickly see what I mean. The 436HP will cut in and out as conditions change, while the SDS100 just consistently works.

Which brings up another point. None of the antenna-related suggestions (directional antenna, attenuation, etc.) work for a vehicle. But a SDS scanner does.

And why, if you already have X scanners (especially if X > 1), is having X + 1 scanners such a controversial idea?

I agree 100% with everything you're says but it doesn't hurt anything to try the lower cost approach first to see if it works for your needs.

 

[KK4JUG]

One of the big selling points of the SDS100 is the way it handles simulcast. If someone wants to Rube Goldberg a setup to wrest a clean signal, well, that his/her privilege.

 

[iMONITOR]

One of the big selling points of the SDS100 is the way it handles simulcast. If someone wants to Rube Goldberg a setup to wrest a clean signal, well, that his/her privilege.

It really wasn't anything complicated, just a little expeirmenting and trial & error. Definaltey worth the effort to save $300 and achive the same results...for me personally. And it's not that I couldn't afford the SRS. As I said I did have a SRS200 but it didn't bring anthing to the party. Fact is it didn't work as well as what I had on VHF/Aircraft, and not better on 700~800MHz compared to what I have.

 

[W6KRU]

I have a 436 and Phase 2 simulcast is garbage on it. I have tried threshold and attenuator settings with no good results. A yagi s not the answer because I want to hear CHP on low band as well. The SDS100 filters are a solid answer and I get good audio.

 

[KK4JUG]

My 436 handled local simulcast about half the time. The SDS100 cured the problem com;pletely. Now it's a moot issue because they've encrypted.

 

[iMONITOR]

My 436 handled local simulcast about half the time. The SDS100 cured the problem com;pletely. Now it's a moot issue because they've encrypted.

DOH! That's horrible, sorry to hear they did that. Macomb County, Michigan won't be too far behind in doing that I'm afraid. That's the other reason I didn't want $700 tided up in a scanner.