Does anyone have any experience with this? Any other DMR radios out there advertising this function?
Retevis P1 high power DMR handheld
Retevis P1 high power DMR handheld
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Single Frequency Repeater function on new DMR handheld???
- Thread starter gkjunk757
- Start date
It uses both time slots, repeating TS1 on to TS 2 and vis versa.
nd5y
Member
Some AnyTone models have it.
Simultaneous.
Ubbe
Member
It's not a duplex radio that can transmit and receive at the same time. It only receives in one timeslot and only retransmits the data on the other time slot. It will still have a pulsating transmission mode where it alternates between receive and transmit.
/Ubbe
/Ubbe
Yes, but since it's TDMA it will *appear* to be receiving and retransmitting simultaneously.
SFR (single frequency repeater) is a great idea and my it is works well when properly implemented. The AT578 (any tone dual band dmr mobile) technically supports SFR, and my testing suggests it does work, but it appears to work very poorly. That is, the receiver is deaf and this is consistent with what I have read about the AT578. On the other hand, some commercial radios, like a few Hytera radios can support SFR and do so properly.
Years ago, I corresponded with a HAM in the UK who was running a 70cm SFR and it worked well. I forget what commercial radio he was using as the SFR, but if memory serves, he worked in the industry and it was some type of motorola.
Bottom line, SFR is a viable concept, if the radio implements it properly.
Years ago, I corresponded with a HAM in the UK who was running a 70cm SFR and it worked well. I forget what commercial radio he was using as the SFR, but if memory serves, he worked in the industry and it was some type of motorola.
Bottom line, SFR is a viable concept, if the radio implements it properly.
Hi all I use a belfone BF AT8250R VHF mobile radio and does sfr with 30watts
This is an excellent radio and looks like a hytera all functions are enabled
headsense
Member - Learner Driver
Also use Belfone BF-TM8250R SFR 30WATT UHF mobile radio. working well so far, early days of testing extreme range limits and reliable handling capability of high volume of active suscribers units working through SFR. (Hytera suscribers PD and MD series)
timeinthefield
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I’m interested in getting one of these. Are you using an actual Belfone or one of the E-bay/Alixpress knockoffs? I’m open to buying either but I can only seem to find the ebay/aliexpress ones. I have a handful of Hytera ht’s and I want to use its SFR capability.
Whichever you have are you still liking it a month later?
headsense
Member - Learner Driver
@timeinthefield yes so far so good with my SFR using Hytera PD662 and MD782 suscribers. A couple of points to date.
1. Field testing has not been extensive as yet due to other commitments and what I wanted to specifically experience is the SFR ability to cope with multiple suscribers at once hammering the SFR and see if it trips up at all in terms of assigning slots and handling users talking direct but also via repeater within a user group. Simple 1 to 1 users at distance, so definetly through repeater, and using "hytera compatibility mode" in the SFR and "psuedo trunk" in the suscribers, its solid and works well to date. Distance has been 7-10 kilometres so far in high density metropolitan enviroment. The farthest distances being relatively clear and above major obstruction e.g hillside to hillside portable (10klm)>SFR>(1klm) portable. In addtion some shorter range sucess walking the neighbourhood and surrounds with portables.
2. I'm using ARC4 encryption on suscribers and also the SFR and it passes through and works quite happily.
3. Short message service I need to test more. My testing is not conclusive as yet but suscriber to suscriber via the SFR appears not to to pass through sucessfully at range all the time but I'm not doing diciplined testing, it is opportune testing when i am travelling or located at testing distances and locations. Suscriber to suscriber and suscriber to SFR SMS is working fine. I must note though the message delivery failures have occurred using portable >SFR> portable at roughly 10 kilometres portable and sending inside vehicle. I really cant claim a problem here until I test again properly using portable>SFR>mobile OR mobile>SFR>mobile and some method and discipline to consider the terrain and variables. In any case messaging is not a must have but is a useful function to have.
4. The Belfone BFDX SFR has two modes when setting up an SFR channel "hytera" or "motorola" compatibility in CPS. I need to explore this in more detail as the CPS HELP file is not available. I have Motorola DP/DM series suscribers and Tait TM/TP9300 suscribers also to test with in time. I suspect the compatibility mode is related to the differences in how each brand manage "true TDMA". Hytera using psuedo trunk it manages slot allocation automatically or can be assigned priority slot everytime if set accordingly. Motorola implentation is slightly different and Tait appears to use same or similar logic to allow compatibility on a Motorola based suscriber system. So currently with limited testing as described above Hytera or Motorola suscribers work with Belfone SFR but mixing them together and then in a high use / load scenario, can it be done and will it function at 100% reliability in terms of traffic managment / pass through.......... good question. I will note on this matter specifcally I am still learning the nuances of each suscriber brand as they are all ETSI DMR compliant but also have brand specific differences and methods of function implentation. The terminology used is conflicting / confusing at times between brands for essentially the same functions at times.
5. Belfone BFDX - the SFR I have purchased was through a Chinese vendor on ebay who appears to sell about 75% of the Belfone analogue and DMR Tier 2 product lines portable and mobile. The mobile SFR unit I received came very quickly via air freight, was supplied in full factory packaging including warranty card and firmware/product labels, included a factory programming cable assembly to suit and the vendor provided the appropriate BFDX branded CPS which is a mutli dmr model program. Labelling on the machine indicates Nov 2024 manufacture date and the quality is easily equal to Hytera product I have experienced. With all tools in hand I had it up and running within 2 hours of receiving hadware. I program on an old Dell desktop running Windows 7 64bit as it was the first machine I sat in front of that day.
I beleive i have purchased a genuine Belfone BFDX product, however, I also believe this specific model SFR is a China domestic market specification equipment OR bulk wholesaler specification or similar and this is not unusual, it keeps the price point lower then selling a Global commerical model or its a spec'd down model specifically for consumer end user sales . You've prompted me to remember to send my completed warranty card to the actual manufacturer just to see if i get a response and perhaps i will ask for a point of service if i require it in the future.
Further I think the product is genuine but domestic / consumer harware specification because the global model specification is what Belfone advertise in brochures, websites, youtube and that specific radio is badge engineered in some countries under a different local name but same global spec. The most obvious thing is domestic model 160 channels, global model 1064 channels capacity, addtional feature entitlements as options not installed. Little details like that. Further I did some googling from the packaging and found the seller location and store front selling hardware in China in one of the large trading / manufacturing districts. End of the day its DMR Tier 2 compatible with SFR functionality out of the box.
Since then I believe I have also found the same sellers store on Ali Express where the cost to do business is much more competitive for Chinese sellers and usually in turn the sharper price point for buyers. There are also maybe 2-3 addtional stores selling the same Belfone BFDX product lines. I think it is genuine product from either source but I really dont give a monkeys at the end of the day. It works, the physical quality is very good, the communication was easy/timely and I got exactly what I ordered in 10 days by air freight. As always buyer beware individual user experience may vary. I have a lot of experience with/avoiding chinese knock off EOL Motorola products so appreciate your thoughts/concerns in that regard and simply share my experience / thoughts. I reckon it would pass an analyzer test too but i dont have that capacity at the moment.
1. Field testing has not been extensive as yet due to other commitments and what I wanted to specifically experience is the SFR ability to cope with multiple suscribers at once hammering the SFR and see if it trips up at all in terms of assigning slots and handling users talking direct but also via repeater within a user group. Simple 1 to 1 users at distance, so definetly through repeater, and using "hytera compatibility mode" in the SFR and "psuedo trunk" in the suscribers, its solid and works well to date. Distance has been 7-10 kilometres so far in high density metropolitan enviroment. The farthest distances being relatively clear and above major obstruction e.g hillside to hillside portable (10klm)>SFR>(1klm) portable. In addtion some shorter range sucess walking the neighbourhood and surrounds with portables.
2. I'm using ARC4 encryption on suscribers and also the SFR and it passes through and works quite happily.
3. Short message service I need to test more. My testing is not conclusive as yet but suscriber to suscriber via the SFR appears not to to pass through sucessfully at range all the time but I'm not doing diciplined testing, it is opportune testing when i am travelling or located at testing distances and locations. Suscriber to suscriber and suscriber to SFR SMS is working fine. I must note though the message delivery failures have occurred using portable >SFR> portable at roughly 10 kilometres portable and sending inside vehicle. I really cant claim a problem here until I test again properly using portable>SFR>mobile OR mobile>SFR>mobile and some method and discipline to consider the terrain and variables. In any case messaging is not a must have but is a useful function to have.
4. The Belfone BFDX SFR has two modes when setting up an SFR channel "hytera" or "motorola" compatibility in CPS. I need to explore this in more detail as the CPS HELP file is not available. I have Motorola DP/DM series suscribers and Tait TM/TP9300 suscribers also to test with in time. I suspect the compatibility mode is related to the differences in how each brand manage "true TDMA". Hytera using psuedo trunk it manages slot allocation automatically or can be assigned priority slot everytime if set accordingly. Motorola implentation is slightly different and Tait appears to use same or similar logic to allow compatibility on a Motorola based suscriber system. So currently with limited testing as described above Hytera or Motorola suscribers work with Belfone SFR but mixing them together and then in a high use / load scenario, can it be done and will it function at 100% reliability in terms of traffic managment / pass through.......... good question. I will note on this matter specifcally I am still learning the nuances of each suscriber brand as they are all ETSI DMR compliant but also have brand specific differences and methods of function implentation. The terminology used is conflicting / confusing at times between brands for essentially the same functions at times.
5. Belfone BFDX - the SFR I have purchased was through a Chinese vendor on ebay who appears to sell about 75% of the Belfone analogue and DMR Tier 2 product lines portable and mobile. The mobile SFR unit I received came very quickly via air freight, was supplied in full factory packaging including warranty card and firmware/product labels, included a factory programming cable assembly to suit and the vendor provided the appropriate BFDX branded CPS which is a mutli dmr model program. Labelling on the machine indicates Nov 2024 manufacture date and the quality is easily equal to Hytera product I have experienced. With all tools in hand I had it up and running within 2 hours of receiving hadware. I program on an old Dell desktop running Windows 7 64bit as it was the first machine I sat in front of that day.
I beleive i have purchased a genuine Belfone BFDX product, however, I also believe this specific model SFR is a China domestic market specification equipment OR bulk wholesaler specification or similar and this is not unusual, it keeps the price point lower then selling a Global commerical model or its a spec'd down model specifically for consumer end user sales . You've prompted me to remember to send my completed warranty card to the actual manufacturer just to see if i get a response and perhaps i will ask for a point of service if i require it in the future.
Further I think the product is genuine but domestic / consumer harware specification because the global model specification is what Belfone advertise in brochures, websites, youtube and that specific radio is badge engineered in some countries under a different local name but same global spec. The most obvious thing is domestic model 160 channels, global model 1064 channels capacity, addtional feature entitlements as options not installed. Little details like that. Further I did some googling from the packaging and found the seller location and store front selling hardware in China in one of the large trading / manufacturing districts. End of the day its DMR Tier 2 compatible with SFR functionality out of the box.
Since then I believe I have also found the same sellers store on Ali Express where the cost to do business is much more competitive for Chinese sellers and usually in turn the sharper price point for buyers. There are also maybe 2-3 addtional stores selling the same Belfone BFDX product lines. I think it is genuine product from either source but I really dont give a monkeys at the end of the day. It works, the physical quality is very good, the communication was easy/timely and I got exactly what I ordered in 10 days by air freight. As always buyer beware individual user experience may vary. I have a lot of experience with/avoiding chinese knock off EOL Motorola products so appreciate your thoughts/concerns in that regard and simply share my experience / thoughts. I reckon it would pass an analyzer test too but i dont have that capacity at the moment.
timeinthefield
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Wow! What a thoughtful response! I really appreciate you taking the time to write all that back to me. I actually decided to order it after reading everything you wrote to me. I just received it in the mail and I’m excited to use it. However, I can’t find the CPS anywhere. When I contacted Belfone they said they won’t supply me with it and that I need to ask the seller. I messaged the seller and haven’t heard back yet. Where did you get your CPS from? I read that the seller provided it to you, but I mean did they send you a link to download it from? I’m very excited to get this programmed and to test it out! Thank you so much again!
headsense
Member - Learner Driver
Congratulations, I hope it meets your expectations, take your time and set up correctly for best experience. The vendor i used supplied hardware by air freight and on arrival i sent them a further email via the Ebay store messaging system and simply asked. They happily obliged and provided a download link via Limewire, available for 7 days and had responded in less than 12 hours.
The version provided is the latest however whilst I was waiting on delivery I also found an older CPS version on a Ukranian radio sellers website and both work the same but look slightly different. colur schemes , corporate logo versions this type of thing.
Please let me know if you get stuck, I'm happy to help you with CPS as long it is not in breach of forum policy etc. Also any other configuration issues, to me it seems a relatively simple process and I am a simple person.
Cheers
The version provided is the latest however whilst I was waiting on delivery I also found an older CPS version on a Ukranian radio sellers website and both work the same but look slightly different. colur schemes , corporate logo versions this type of thing.
Please let me know if you get stuck, I'm happy to help you with CPS as long it is not in breach of forum policy etc. Also any other configuration issues, to me it seems a relatively simple process and I am a simple person.
Cheers
timeinthefield
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So I have had some time to play around with it. I’ve set up both a “M” (Motorola) and “H” (Hytera) SFR channel. Tested the M with a pair of Ailunce HD2’s and H with a pair of HP602’s. Both channels and brands seem to work keying up the Belfone and are able to be heard on the rx’ing handheld. I am just curious how to test that it’s actually the SFR transmission I’m hearing and not just the 2 radios communicating simplex due to close proximity. I suppose the only way to really know would be to have myself and someone else take a radio each and head in opposite directions using a simplex channel. Once we can no longer hear each other switch to the SFR channel and see if it works. Unless I’m totally doing it wrong which is possible.
Also, what does the “Duplex” option do in the CPS when setting up a DMR channel? I’ve played around with it and it always says something like “can’t connect to repeater out”.
Overall I like the radio though once I got the CPS and figured out how to change the language to English and change all the Chinese zone and channel names etc. I’m going to install it in my truck and use as a portable SFR to use when I’m out in the back country hiking or camping etc. just want to dial it all in in the comfort of my own house before I rely on it outdoors.
I’m really glad I can bounce these questions and ideas off you as I have found almost no documentation or support network with this radio, and more importantly the CPS. Too bad the CPS didn’t have the same help files as Hytera’s CPS. That would help so much. Anyway, thanks again and hopefully someone else will find this thread in the future and save them time and headaches.
headsense
Member - Learner Driver
Glad to hear your off to a decent start, nothing worse then starting out hitting a snag and the regrests creep in.
It should be, regards DUPLEX function per channel, that this is a channel mode and you will not have the hardware function to support it built in typically, same as Hytera MD782, it has DUPLEX capability but it is actually a variation of the radio model with addtional internal hardware and a feature licence in order for the function to work at 40% higher list price also. And I suspect DUP on Hytera also requires repeater infrastructure support but dont know truth be told.
On my machine I set up a specific RPT channel and the options are SFR or DUP but not both hence why I refer to it as an operating mode. At this early stage I have not even explored it as SFR mode is what i wanted to start off with it and to determine its high traffic load capability/relaibility + just use it to extend portable range footprint at a singe location or to connect to locations.
For your reference my CPS - BFP-TM8250F V1.0.48.0 and my radio is Firmware BTL_2.5.27.40 CPS 5-NOV-2024 CPS_1.00.02 and UI_V3.70
In terms of testing I bought the radio to install in a vehicle permenantley specifically for SFR but to date have been testing as a base unit into an outdoor roof mounted 6.5db colinear antenna at 10w medium power and my location is on the back side of a small hill peak in a high density metro area. So to your question of testing I may have one portable unit out on the road miles away, the SFR active, and the second portable unit inside the same building as the repeater so I'm positive the repeater is doing its job. Portable to portable over the rise of the hill is problematic or not possible same as outdoor portable to portable deep inside building, and the experience is the same with messaging under those condtions, it either will or it wont RX them simplex or portable to portable.
A vehicle test would simply be two portable units located either side of a hill or even super wide plain lands and your repeater on the hill top, as the portable units move apart it quickly becomes apparent wether the SFR is operating or not . As you said though, with 3x operators available you can switch the repeater on and off to obtain the same verification of operation.
My problem is i have a lot of different branded LMR hardware I can run and test but few willing operators readily at hand to do the donkey work ............ why would you, cell phone see it does everything, radio makes no sense ........... so have done some one to one and one to two operator testing + as an interim measure, resorted to monitoring multiple radios, at multiple strategic geographic locations via camera at the same time operating. From there, review the footage to confirm notes and field experience of test. I'm really time poor as a result of my job to get practical and methodical testing done currently.
Please continue to share your experience as you go.
I really hope someone can come back with some review or experience with OP's Retevis P1 request as I nearly went this route as a cheap option to dabble with SFR first time but punted and invested large up front on a mobile unit.
It should be, regards DUPLEX function per channel, that this is a channel mode and you will not have the hardware function to support it built in typically, same as Hytera MD782, it has DUPLEX capability but it is actually a variation of the radio model with addtional internal hardware and a feature licence in order for the function to work at 40% higher list price also. And I suspect DUP on Hytera also requires repeater infrastructure support but dont know truth be told.
On my machine I set up a specific RPT channel and the options are SFR or DUP but not both hence why I refer to it as an operating mode. At this early stage I have not even explored it as SFR mode is what i wanted to start off with it and to determine its high traffic load capability/relaibility + just use it to extend portable range footprint at a singe location or to connect to locations.
For your reference my CPS - BFP-TM8250F V1.0.48.0 and my radio is Firmware BTL_2.5.27.40 CPS 5-NOV-2024 CPS_1.00.02 and UI_V3.70
In terms of testing I bought the radio to install in a vehicle permenantley specifically for SFR but to date have been testing as a base unit into an outdoor roof mounted 6.5db colinear antenna at 10w medium power and my location is on the back side of a small hill peak in a high density metro area. So to your question of testing I may have one portable unit out on the road miles away, the SFR active, and the second portable unit inside the same building as the repeater so I'm positive the repeater is doing its job. Portable to portable over the rise of the hill is problematic or not possible same as outdoor portable to portable deep inside building, and the experience is the same with messaging under those condtions, it either will or it wont RX them simplex or portable to portable.
A vehicle test would simply be two portable units located either side of a hill or even super wide plain lands and your repeater on the hill top, as the portable units move apart it quickly becomes apparent wether the SFR is operating or not . As you said though, with 3x operators available you can switch the repeater on and off to obtain the same verification of operation.
My problem is i have a lot of different branded LMR hardware I can run and test but few willing operators readily at hand to do the donkey work ............ why would you, cell phone see it does everything, radio makes no sense ........... so have done some one to one and one to two operator testing + as an interim measure, resorted to monitoring multiple radios, at multiple strategic geographic locations via camera at the same time operating. From there, review the footage to confirm notes and field experience of test. I'm really time poor as a result of my job to get practical and methodical testing done currently.
Please continue to share your experience as you go.
I really hope someone can come back with some review or experience with OP's Retevis P1 request as I nearly went this route as a cheap option to dabble with SFR first time but punted and invested large up front on a mobile unit.
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