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Smartzone, Smartnet?

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N6RDT

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Does anyone know what the difference is between motorola type II smartzone and smartnet? I bought a radio that is smartzone capable. Will it also work on smartnet?
 

N6RDT

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Thank you for the reply. So what i am understanding is smartnet is 1 site with multiple talk groups and smartzone is multiple sites and mutliple talk groups. So, will I be able to program a system that is smartnet into a smartzone radio? and on the database it has a DEC number with 5 digits and a Hex with 3 digits? what is a DEC and HEX?
 

trumpetman

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Right, SmartNet = 1 site, SmartZone = multi-site. Per the link below, SmartZone is backwards compatible with SmartNet, but you cannot use a SN radio on a multi-site SZ system:

http://forums.radioreference.com/motorola-forum/231841-smartnet-smartzone.html

DEC & HEX are different means of displaying values. DEC is decimal (using 0 - 9) and HEX is hexadecimal, allowing 16 characters (0 - 9 & A - F). Talkgroups are entered into radios in hex format to conserve memory (hence the 3 characters (HEX) is better than 5 characters (DEC))

I highly suggest against trying to program your radio to a trunking system, there are a lot of risks involved (regarding you and other users of the system) and best case scenario, the system admin is probably going to see you and brick your radio and it'll be a waste of time and money;

However... if you're stubborn and wanting to learn by doing (we've all been there), I suggest strolling on over to Batlabs and doing a lot of reading, but be prepared, no one is going to hand this to you, and trunking is a very sophisticated technology.

Good luck!
 

mmckenna

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The other item you would need would be the system key. You are not going to get one of those handed to you either. It would be comparable to be wandering around town handing out keys to my front door. It lets anyone in an lets them do whatever they want. Sure, there are ways to produce your own system keys, but then it turns into theft of service at the least, and a felony at worst.

Best/easiest thing to do is program the trunked system frequencies into your radio as conventional channels, set up scan on all of them, and set one of the buttons as a nuisance delete to block out the control channel.

I run a trunked system, and I don't take kindly to outsiders trying to mooch service off me. Even if you only want to listen, your radio would have to associate with my system to make that happen.

Trust me, either do it as a receive only conventional scan, or sell the radio and get a scanner.
 

N6RDT

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my company used to be on LTR UHF system. now we are on 800 conventional. My only reason for inquiring bout it is because i wasnt familiar much with smartnet. i programed LTR before. But thanks for your reply..
 

VE3RADIO

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The other item you would need would be the system key. You are not going to get one of those handed to you either. It would be comparable to be wandering around town handing out keys to my front door. It lets anyone in an lets them do whatever they want. Sure, there are ways to produce your own system keys, but then it turns into theft of service at the least, and a felony at worst.

Best/easiest thing to do is program the trunked system frequencies into your radio as conventional channels, set up scan on all of them, and set one of the buttons as a nuisance delete to block out the control channel.

I run a trunked system, and I don't take kindly to outsiders trying to mooch service off me. Even if you only want to listen, your radio would have to associate with my system to make that happen.

Trust me, either do it as a receive only conventional scan, or sell the radio and get a scanner.
If you truly run a trunked radio system I am concerned ... you are either a liar or you don't know what your talking about. Any system admin knows damn well that it is possible to monitor a TRS without affiliation.. both 3600 and 9600 systems.

Do I recommend someone who has to ask how to do it? Not at all.. but don't lie to the guy.
 

mmckenna

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All radios I have set up affiliate on power up to my system. So, in your view, I may be a liar.
Thanks for your concern, but it certainly isn't needed.

And there are certainly kinder ways to say that. Being friendly and courteous to the others around you is a good thing to practice, whether you know that person or not.
 

VE3RADIO

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Just because you set your radios the auto affiliate or power-up does not mean that his radio will if programmed correctly.

Not trying to offend you, nor do I suggest he try to setup a radio on a TRS... but don't give out bad information to better your point..
 
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mmckenna

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Just because you set your radios the auto affiliate or power-up does not mean that his radio will if he programs it not too.
Of course not. However someone that has not programmed a trunking radio won't necessarily know that. The risk is there that if it isn't programmed correctly the radio can affiliate. All of the radios I program are set to affiliate right away. If one of them falls into the wrong hands, it will still affiliate, and I can see that on the system. As a system operator I'm more concerned about the system from my point of view, not from that of a scanner enthusiasts.

Not trying to offend you, nor do I suggest he try to setup a radio on a TRS... but don't give out bad information to better your point..
I'm not trying to better my point. Only trying to discourage someone who is not familiar with these systems from doing something that may get them in trouble. While you and I may understand all the nuances of how these things work, both on the subscriber unit side and the central controller side, most scanner listeners do not. There are a lot of ways to do this. Some even go as far as to open the radio up and physically remove components to guarantee that they cannot transmit. Not a bad idea but I'm not going to launch into a long winded, exhaustive explanation on all the many different ways to do this correctly. Best way is to not do it at all.
 

VE3RADIO

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Fair enough.I was under the impression from your original post that you were emplying that it could not be done... Should it be done is an entire debate on its own.
 

kb0uxv

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mmckenna was kind enough to point out the safe conventional channel scan method. The "other" methods, at least as far as I know, all require that pesky system key. And when that topic comes up us system admins get understandably touchy.

Clearly this is not an issue with N6RDT, but I am sure there are people reading this may be considering this. I strongly agree with mmckenna - it is very dangerous without the proper knowledge and experience.
 

VE3RADIO

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mmckenna was kind enough to point out the safe conventional channel scan method. The "other" methods, at least as far as I know, all require that pesky system key. And when that topic comes up us system admins get understandably touchy.

Clearly this is not an issue with N6RDT, but I am sure there are people reading this may be considering this. I strongly agree with mmckenna - it is very dangerous without the proper knowledge and experience.

I completely agree, i just wanted to clarify that although dangerous, it is possible... nothing else, nothing more.
 

mikewazowski

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Thank you for the reply. So what i am understanding is smartnet is 1 site with multiple talk groups and smartzone is multiple sites and mutliple talk groups.
Smartnet systems can have more than one site.

Talkgroups are simulcast over each site.

On a Smartzone system, the talkgroups are only broadcast if a user on that talkgroup is affiliated with the site or the talkgroup is slaved to the site.
 

N6RDT

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To clear the air. It has been assumed that i was talking about stealing service or bootleging. I simply asked a question from my fellow RR enthuziasts. Here is a good point tho. If a scanner can listen on the system and talk groups without giving power up ID, how is it different with a transciever. Also, I have permission from the system owner to use the system. He programed my radio today to his system. Although, I dont understand everything he did when he programed it, It certainly works well. So, Lets not be so touchy. There is also conventional 800 in it too.
 

RKG

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To clear the air. It has been assumed that i was talking about stealing service or bootleging. I simply asked a question from my fellow RR enthuziasts. Here is a good point tho. If a scanner can listen on the system and talk groups without giving power up ID, how is it different with a transciever. Also, I have permission from the system owner to use the system. He programed my radio today to his system. Although, I dont understand everything he did when he programed it, It certainly works well. So, Lets not be so touchy. There is also conventional 800 in it too.
The simple answer to your question is that Motorola has intentionally programmed its latest models' firmware so that they will not respond to channel grant OSWs unless they have affiliated, and in most cases have set auto affiliation as an unchangeable parameter in the trunking system section. This was done specifically to impede the use of Motorola trunking subscriber equipment for "receive only" use.
 

mikewazowski

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Just use the method of scanning the system talkgroups from a conventional channel and your radio will never affiliate.

You'll still be able to listen to the system.

Works on the Astro, Astro25 and APX lines.
 
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