St. George's, NL P25 system information

[Androx]

Good day all,

I have just managed to do a full firmware upload on my Uniden Bearcat BC796D scanner. I am currently trying to program P25 VHF frequencies into my scanner. Unfortunately, although I have the two frequencies I am unable to find the system's base frequency, space frequency or channel offset.

Please message me back if you are able to determine what information I need

The frequencies for P25 for my area is listed in RR under NL Canada and the area that I am in is St. George's which is the Stephenville and Bay St. George area. The frequencies are 160.5900 and that is the control channel and 161.2500. As you will see, there are other frequencies listed for the P25 digital system. I am unaware if I have to enter those frequencies as they are a considerable distance from the Bay St. George area.

Also, anyone out there living in my area of Newfoundland could please contact me for further discussion on the P25 system in our area.

Thank you for your time.

Androx

 

[robsterw]

Default base/offset/freq settings should suffice..
Stephenville is closer to you @ ~20km. Use this freq: 160.5900
If you're planning to go mobile, add the other sites

 

[Androx]

That is valuable but I may have discovered that in Newfoundland the P25 system may have changed somewhat. They are switching their control channels or some other method and is causing the scanners to lock on the channel and not scan. If you search struct_dj in RR you'll see a post whereby he describes the issue of lockup. He first experienced the issue in May of 2011. I am trying to make contact with him to verify if he still has the problem. I purchased my scanner in June and had no idea that other folks had my same problem. I can listen to the RCMP but my scanner will not scan pass a quiet P25 channel ( there are two for my area ) I have tried in vain with no positive results.

I appreciate your response and await your reply.

Androx

 

[robsterw]

In general, Control channels rotate often. It's part of keeping things "fresh".

Does this video demonstrate your current issue? Uniden Scanner BC796D update # 2 - YouTube

Perhaps UPman can assist?

 

[Androx]

That is understandable... The only outstanding issue I have now is to actually get my scanner to scan pass these two frequencies and be able to scan my other conventional frequencies. If I put all conventional frequencies in my scanner, it scans perfectly with the proper amount of squelch. Once I put the two digital frequencies in the squelch cannot cut out the channels whether they are speaking or not. The specific problem is how I am ebtering them into the scanner. One is a control but they seem to be switching back and forth as I said. It appears as though I am not getting the programming right on the digital P25 frequencies. I have the manual for the scanner and followed the step by step instruction several times with no luck. I am either missing a crucial step, misinterpreting the directions or the P25 system has evolved into something that my scanner cannot squelch.

I receive these digital channels very well but just cannot scan both plus conventional or no conventional frequencies. My 1000 channel scanner can only listen to one P25 and I need to manually move to the other frequency when they switch over.... A crying shame for an expensive 1000 channel scanner...

Thank you for your time and interest and assistance with my scanner issue.

Andy (Androx)

 

[ve1sef]

I'm sure you've tried this but have you programed the digital channels in the trunk mode?

 

[Androx]

I am saying yes as I have followed the manual on trunking and P25 VHF frequency entry. I feel as though I am missing something. frustration as limited my latest attempts as it all seems in vain. I am of the opinion that the P25 has changed in our area as a local ( struct_dj ) made reference to the same problem but on his last post he said the original antenna rectified his antenna. He posted no further entries. I have an antenna on it which is a rubber duckie and it sits horixzontal on my BNC connector my signal is three bars and I receive the RCMP very well.

Perhaps if I persist I may stumble upon the cure.

 

[robsterw]

Ok. I see the problem now.

Unfortunately, your current scanner won't support Newfoundland's Digital trunking methods.
You need to buy a new Uniden 996XT in order to properly TRUNK scan that single frequency.

See
http://info.uniden.com/twiki/bin/view/UnidenMan4/SingleFrequencyP25TrunkedSystems
&
Digital Scanner Comparison Chart - The RadioReference Wiki

Struct_DJ has a PSR-500.
As you can see, the PSR-500 doesn't support single freq p25 trunking either.
Hence his difficulties.

So I know this isn't the news you want to hear.
Being that it's not the best or cheapest solution, but it's all I got... :/

 

[Androx]

That's all I needed to know. Now I can proceed in securing the BC996XT. I can sell this one for a fiar price and that will help to finance a new one. Thanks for the clarification.

Andy ( ANDROX)

 

[Androx]

On the other hand, another tech is telling me that programming the scanner thru computer with Radio reference database information uploaded will rectify the problem. That is a shot in the dark and I am of the opinion that I should cut my losses and use the scanner as is until I decide to upgrade.

If the system here changed in May of 2011, then that says a lot as that is when Struct_DJ first commented on the change but then he said using the original antenna solved that issue. I am unable to contact him. He lives 15 km's from me and I have sent private messages to him to get an update and no answer. A shot in the dark but I believe you are correct in what you say... Therefore I am doubtful the upload from RR will make any difference.

 

[Jay911]

Wait a minute, wait a minute.

You have two frequencies listed in your original post, one being a control channel and the other a voice channel.

Program it as a P25 system (I think older Uniden scanners like yours might describe it as "Mot P25").
I have just spent a week going up and down the east coast of the province and have found a number of P25 sites/systems for the RCMP, exactly like what you are dealing with down that way. They're simply two-channel (or in some case three-channel) trunk systems. I don't remember exactly how to program a trunk system by hand in a 796D, but I'm 99% sure it will handle a garden-variety P25 system.

None of the sites I found on the east half of the province are "One Frequency Trunk" P25 systems. They are all multiple-frequency systems.

I just checked the manual online (available here -> http://www.uniden.com/pdf/BC796Dom.pdf ) and this is what you need to do.

1. Create a new system using the instructions starting on page 46, "Programming Type2/Digital VHF and UHF Systems".
2. The base is 150.8, the offset is 0, and the step/spacing is 5 kHz. That works for every site I have in my scanners and Unitrunker. Newer scanners don't require base/step/offset. I don't recall what the older scanners require.
3. Enter both the frequencies.
4. Set it to ID SEARCH so you will get all the talkgroups (there's more than one per site, I have found).
5. Hit SCAN and you should be off to the races.

If you want to replace your 796D with a 996XT, it will make life easier for you as all you'll need to do is program in the frequencies - no tables required. Even better, a HomePatrol will track the P25 system beautifully.

 

[Androx]

Appreciate your communication and the glimmer of hope that you have sprung upon my issue. The two active frequencies I can listen to are 160.5900 and 161.2500. The first one is labelled control but they switch channels sometimes twice a day.

My scanner is the BC796D Trunktracker IV. I briefly tried again what you suggested as I have the manual downloaded.

Here is what happens.

I erase memory first ( hold, 2 , 9 ) power up unit.

Press menu to go to scan option
Select TRUNK then E (enter)
TRUNK TYPE (select ON)
Select TYPE2/P25 VHF then E
Select BASE CONF ( press in 150.8) then E
Enter space frequency (5) then E
Offset channel ( 0 ) When I press "0" I get "ERROR"

That is as far as I am getting.. It selects CH 380 for some reason
If I enter CH 380 as it appears it goes to Priority channel 1 of the scanner and says selct base conf base conf 2

Any ideas what the stumbling block is here.?

 

[Jay911]

According to other threads found with the search "P25 796D base offset" in the forums, just use the default settings (380, etc). The system will provide the scanner what it needs to track the system.

So just hit Enter each time you get prompted for base/step/offset options and let it use what it already has.

 

[ve1sef]

Try some of these, I found them while Newfoundland in 2010.
158.58 Port aux Basque
160.59 Grand Falls, Glovertown
153.29 Clarenville, Port aux Basque
155.58 Stephenville ?
160.865
161.25
159.06
155.34
160.58
160.34
159.69
155.64 Corner Brook, Gander
160.41
160.8
159.12
160.335
161.49
160.2 Corner Brook ?
155.28 Gander
155.88
160.485 Gander
Found these during frequency search, quicked saved while mobile, not sure which are control channels
or voice channels.

 

[Androx]

Try some of these, I found them while Newfoundland in 2010.
158.58 Port aux Basque
160.59 Grand Falls, Glovertown
153.29 Clarenville, Port aux Basque
155.58 Stephenville ?
160.865
161.25
159.06
155.34
160.58
160.34
159.69
155.64 Corner Brook, Gander
160.41
160.8
159.12
160.335
161.49
160.2 Corner Brook ?
155.28 Gander
155.88
160.485 Gander
Found these during frequency search, quicked saved while mobile, not sure which are control channels
or voice channels.

Wow, a lot more than I see listed in RR... I'll load them up but first I will copy and paste to be able to print. Thanks for your time and information.

Andy (Androx)

 

[Jay911]

I have a ton in my HomePatrol logs. Interestingly enough, a lot of the frequencies line up with existing freqs used by the RCMP in other parts of the country. For example, 155.58, 155.82, 155.64, 155.7, and 155.67 are all normal conventional repeaters/simplex channels in Alberta.

I will be submitting all the data I have once I get it sorted out. Also see the "Coming to Newfoundland" thread I posted in this same forum for more info.

 

[mikewazowski]

I'm trying to get them into the database as fast as I can so hopefully you'll be able to benefit from the changes while you're out there.

Lot's of good stuff.

 

[Androx]

I am hoping this has nothing to do with my scanner not having the "Adaptive Digital Threshold". That is the only thing I can see that the BCD996XT has over the BC796D Trunktracker IV ... This may be an issue for the squelch problem all along. I hope I am wrong!

 

[Androx]

Much appreciated. I am grasping at straws hoping to get this scanner fully functional with P25

Adaptive Digital Threshold may be the new kill joy or buzz word when it comes to my long standing issue. I got this scanner in June 2011 and there is evidence that the P25 system may have morphed here in May 2011. This is my fiorst digital scanner so i don't have anything previous experience in the possible "pre morph" scanning era.... I am having a difficult time finding any local folks in here that may refute or confirm my squelch issue.

 

[Jay911]

I've just submitted a ton of stuff to the DB for the P25 system. I'm going to be heading west from Gander in the morning - not sure how far I'll get because I have to be back in time to take off back to Calgary early on Wednesday morning. In the meantime, though, I will try to pin down as many sites as I can.

Now that I have had time to look at the scanner while it's receiving, I have witnessed the behavior you guys are talking about. The scanner is not getting "hung up" on the frequency, per se. The voice channel - on some sites - is constantly transmitting dead air in P25 mode. If you listen to the frequency in analog mode, you'll hear the high-revving-diesel-engine sound of a P25 transmission, constantly. Because P25 has such good noise reduction in comparison to analog, your scanner is totally silent when in digital mode.

Program the frequencies as a P25 trunk system. The one that "hangs up" is the voice channel. The other one is the control channel. It'll work just fine.