State Patrol Talkgroups

egftechman

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Listening to ARMER traffic here in the NW corner of MN, I have my SDRs all tuned into the East Grand Forks site, and currently recording all talkgroups to verify the published reports. I expected to hear TRF state patrol on talkgroup 48400 (like they used to be on 154.92), but on that same 48400 talkgroup I also hear calls to Detroit Lakes (formerly on 154.68) and some St. Cloud calls. Are all the NW MN state patrol talkgroups patched together?
 

ofd8001

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I imagine it is part of the dispatch center consolidation that began some time ago. I kind of like it because I can get on Broadcastify Calls platform and hear the 3200 units.

Years ago when visiting family in EGF, listening to MSP on their VHF channels was "spartan".
 

jason_58201

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After the great consolidation and the installation of ARMER each district was to still have their own channel and dispatcher no matter where dispatch was located. A few years ago I noticed that at 10 pm each night and on the weekends there would be an announcement made announcing that 3200 and 2900 would be patched together for the night/weekend.

just an assumption on my part, but I think it was to reduce staffing costs.

the addition of St. Cloud to the patch was more recent and I think it’s for the same reason or for staffing shortages.
 

lenk911

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It is interesting how history repeats itself. When I came to work for the Department of Highways in 1968, 3200 (TRF) dispatched for 2900 (Detroit Lakes) and the western part of 2600 (Saint Cloud). The central part of 2600 was from 2300 (Marshall) and the eastern part of 2600 from Saint Paul (2400 & 2500). Virginia (3100) and Brainerd (2800) split Duluth (2700). Rochester (2100) and Marshall split the Mankato (2200) district all 24-7. It was a cost saving split defined by where the radio system had coverage. There were places where it required 4 hops of 72/75 MHz and VHF/UHF links for the dispatch center to reach an outlying base station.

In rural MN there were many winter weekday nights when the only person on duty was the dispatcher in a district. They were needed to answer Zenith 7000 the predecessor to 911, the teletype and respond to mutual aid from the sheriff's and the adjacent states.

Today I believe all dispatching comes from Waters Edge in Roseville. They like are other states are dynamically assigning dispatching to where the work load is needed. It's nice to have a radio system that allows those options and flexibility.
 

egftechman

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It is interesting how history repeats itself. When I came to work for the Department of Highways in 1968, 3200 (TRF) dispatched for 2900 (Detroit Lakes) and the western part of 2600 (Saint Cloud). The central part of 2600 was from 2300 (Marshall) and the eastern part of 2600 from Saint Paul (2400 & 2500). Virginia (3100) and Brainerd (2800) split Duluth (2700). Rochester (2100) and Marshall split the Mankato (2200) district all 24-7. It was a cost saving split defined by where the radio system had coverage. There were places where it required 4 hops of 72/75 MHz and VHF/UHF links for the dispatch center to reach an outlying base station.

In rural MN there were many winter weekday nights when the only person on duty was the dispatcher in a district. They were needed to answer Zenith 7000 the predecessor to 911, the teletype and respond to mutual aid from the sheriff's and the adjacent states.

Today I believe all dispatching comes from Waters Edge in Roseville. They like are other states are dynamically assigning dispatching to where the work load is needed. It's nice to have a radio system that allows those options and flexibility.
Actually I believe dispatching for 3200 and 2900 comes out of Rochester now ( Dashboard - Dispatch ). I'm going to guess everyone sharing a dispatcher is likely patched together to keep calls from piling up on the dispatcher.
Growing up in Fargo in the 1980s, I remember tuning in all those 72 MHz and 450 MHz links from remote sites so I could hear the mobiles (they only turned on the repeaters when units far away from each other needed to talk to each other).
I'm really surprised they've concentrated everything in the SE part of the state. Would have made more sense for the "up north" area to be dispatched out of like Bemidji, so a major "event" going through the middle of the state (possibly tying up or downing fiber and microwave links) doesn't leave "up north" islanded.
 

jason_58201

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Actually I believe dispatching for 3200 and 2900 comes out of Rochester now ( Dashboard - Dispatch ). I'm going to guess everyone sharing a dispatcher is likely patched together to keep calls from piling up on the dispatcher.
Growing up in Fargo in the 1980s, I remember tuning in all those 72 MHz and 450 MHz links from remote sites so I could hear the mobiles (they only turned on the repeaters when units far away from each other needed to talk to each other).
I'm really surprised they've concentrated everything in the SE part of the state. Would have made more sense for the "up north" area to be dispatched out of like Bemidji, so a major "event" going through the middle of the state (possibly tying up or downing fiber and microwave links) doesn't leave "up north" islanded.
I agree with ya. Though I think (speculation on my part) that with ARMER any of the larger counties up north could in theory handle dispatching sate patrol in the event that there was a need. As I understand it, no 911 calls go through state patrol anyway as they are all relayed from each psap to state patrol dispatch or on the district all call channel.
 

lenk911

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with ARMER any of the larger counties up north could in theory handle dispatching sate patrol in the event that there was a need
Technically true but politically very false. I don't know of any state policing agency that routinely accepts formal dispatching from a county. For state patrols, there may be a informal mutual aid request through cross monitoring of state/county networks. For state investigative functions like the BCA, there may be communications regarding a specific investigation but that's all. In many western states, the state center(s) dispatch counties like in North Dakota.

Some of this is due to occasional requests to the legislature to abolish the state policing functions from the larger counties. In other cases it is federal mandates buried in highway safety, DOJ, Homeland Security and DOD regulations. The state communications centers are the first point of contact from the feds in an emergency.
 

egftechman

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I want to say years ago there was an agreement in ND where Red River Regional Dispatch (Fargo-Moorhead) can take over ND State Radio if the Bismarck bunker were to become incapacitated....But Fargo and Cass County, ND are not participating in SIRN 2020 (ND's statewide trunking system), but rather are participating in ARMER, so not sure if Fargo still backs up Bismarck for ND State Radio - but of course, outside of Grand Forks and Bismarck, no one is using SIRN 2020 yet, State Radio (NDHP) and DOT aren't even using it (still on conventional VHF), nor are they even patched into SIRN, so will assume no near term migration plans yet (discussion for another topic on this forum, getting off topic for MN discussion)
 

lenk911

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I want to say years ago there was an agreement in ND where Red River Regional Dispatch (Fargo-Moorhead) can take over ND State Radio if the Bismarck bunker were to become incapacitated....But Fargo and Cass County, ND are not participating in SIRN 2020 (ND's statewide trunking system), but rather are participating in ARMER,
Generally at least one major county is equipped to back up some of the federal warning functions of the state radio. They usually don't have the reach and capacity of the state's center but can start the communications to be dispersed.

As trunking system controllers advance in capability and capacity, I wont be surprised of interstate merger of like branded state trunk systems occurring. The Red River valley is not unique where public safety interests span state lines. The monumental issue to be solved is system management and control.

My foggy crystal ball tells me the next generation of statewide trunk systems will be engineered, owned and operated by a trusted third party, quasi governmental entity or like First Net. The think governmental managers would love for a system that becomes a recurring expense rather than a big capital bonding project every 15-20 years. One common denominator of all trunk systems is a large portion of the equipment has the same birthday and is simulcast. Meaning it will need to be replaced all together.
 
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