Statewide-NIFOG repeaters

[gldavis]

While looking at UCA Fleetmap briefings, Zones 14 and 15 are allocated to 800Mhz State repeaters and assorted NIFOG Repeater channels. I am curious if these repeater actually exist in Utah? Or maybe they are they being used as placeholders for future upgrades?

 

[fireparamed1]

They are programmed into my work radio. I believe it’s a national requirement to do so. I also think I heard that the repeaters are “turned off” to prevent unauthorized use until they are needed.

 

[gldavis]

Interesting that the only "Talk Around', allocated channels are the State Repeaters.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

Fixed infrastructure interop repeaters are supposed to be independently licensed. I would check ULS first.

 

[gldavis]

Fixed infrastructure interop repeaters are supposed to be independently licensed. I would check ULS first.

There are several NIFOG simplex/Talk-Around channels allocated. A few "Interop" channels that did not require Infrastructure (power, repeaters, location) would be nice to have available. From what I understand, there are only 4 "real" car to car channels. All other channels must go thru a repeater, controlled by an external computer. (I guess the contract guarantees that the "system" will always be operational/never go down ) .

 

[nd5y]

The federal government, probably every state, and some local governments have field deployable temporary repeaters that can be set up anywhere.

Just because there might not be any permanent VHF/UHF/700/800 interop repeaters in your area doesn't mean the frequencies will never be used in your area.

 

[fireparamed1]

There are 5 "Statewide Talk Around channels for the State they are programmed as:

STTA 1: 853.4000
STTA 2: 853.4750
STTA 3: 853.7625
STTA 4: 852.1250
STTA 5: 852.7000

These are frequently used when we go in buildings and the radio signal can't get out to a repeater. We will tell all units to "Go to Ground". Most agencies program one of these ground channels in one of the first three "Toggle Switch A,B,C" zones on their radios for ease of finding/using. They are often called "Ground Channels" by Fire and EMS.

Our real world testing of these channels is that they MAY get outside the building to the command unit. In outdoor use, they typically have about 1/2 to 1 mile range. Sometimes more, sometimes less. Our department uses them when they are backing up apparatus, or on the drill ground and not wanting everyone to be hearing that they are testing hose, or practicing talking while wearing an SCBA etc.

We are then required by federal rules to have certain 7CALL, 7TAC, 8CALL, 8TAC, and 7MED (Because we are Fire/Ems). Each of these are set up for repeater use, but broadcast in simplex mode until the repeater is turned on. I checked my radio today and each channel was broadcasting in Simplex mode on the Input frequency. (Still with NAC Tone) In Utah, these are the required Fire/EMS channels: My understanding is that they are all supposed to be in Simplex mode until needed for interop use in a disaster or large incident. Then they turn on or set up repeater sites as needed. They are not supposed to be used for other things.

STRP=STATE REPEATER
STTA= STATE TALK AROUND
ALL 7 AND 8 CHANNLES ARE THE FEDERAL LIST. THEY CAN BE FOUND HERE: Common Public Safety - The RadioReference Wiki

Conventional	Input	Output	TONE
STRPT01	808.40000	UNKNOWN	293 NAC
STRPT02	808.46750	UNKNOWN	293 NAC
STPRT03	808.76250	UNKNOWN	293 NAC
STPRT04	807.12500	UNKNOWN	293 NAC
STRPT05	807.70000	UNKNOWN	293 NAC
STTA01	853.40000	NONE	293 NAC
STTA02	853.47500	NONE	293 NAC
STTA03	853.76250	NONE	293 NAC
STTA04	852.12500	NONE	293 NAC
STTA05	852.70000	NONE	293 NAC
7CALL50	799.24375	769.24375	293 NAC
8CALL90
8TAC92
8TAC93
8TAC94
7TAC51	799.14375	SAME	293 NAC
7TAC52	799.64375	SAME	293 NAC
7TAC53	800.14375	770.14375	293 NAC
7TAC54	800.64375	770.64375	293 NAC
7TAC55	799.74375	769.74375	293 NAC
7TAC56	800.24375	770.24375	293 NAC
7FIRE63	799.89375	SAME	293 NAC
7FIRE83	803.50625	773.50625	293 NAC
7MED65	799.39375	SAME	293 NAC
7MED86	803.00625	773.00625	293 NAC
8CALL90	806.01250	851.0125	156.7 PL
8TAC91	806.51250	SAME	156.7 PL
8TAC92	807.01250	SAME	156.7 PL
8TAC93	807.51250	SAME	156.7 PL
8TAC94	808.01250	SAME	156.7 PL

 

[gldavis]

This is where it gets a bit confusing. "Talk around" or "Go to Ground" channels are programed to talk and listen on the output freq.
But the 7 and 8 channels are Repeater programmed. My understanding is the radios are programmed to talk on one freq (input), and listen on a different freq (output). Is there a user setting to tell the radio to use simplex and not go thru a repeater?

 

[Cameron314]

There are 5 "Statewide Talk Around channels for the State they are programmed as:

STTA 1: 853.4000
STTA 2: 853.4750
STTA 3: 853.7625
STTA 4: 852.1250
STTA 5: 852.7000

These are frequently used when we go in buildings and the radio signal can't get out to a repeater. We will tell all units to "Go to Ground". Most agencies program one of these ground channels in one of the first three "Toggle Switch A,B,C" zones on their radios for ease of finding/using. They are often called "Ground Channels" by Fire and EMS.

Our real world testing of these channels is that they MAY get outside the building to the command unit. In outdoor use, they typically have about 1/2 to 1 mile range. Sometimes more, sometimes less. Our department uses them when they are backing up apparatus, or on the drill ground and not wanting everyone to be hearing that they are testing hose, or practicing talking while wearing an SCBA etc.

We are then required by federal rules to have certain 7CALL, 7TAC, 8CALL, 8TAC, and 7MED (Because we are Fire/Ems). Each of these are set up for repeater use, but broadcast in simplex mode until the repeater is turned on. I checked my radio today and each channel was broadcasting in Simplex mode on the Input frequency. (Still with NAC Tone) In Utah, these are the required Fire/EMS channels: My understanding is that they are all supposed to be in Simplex mode until needed for interop use in a disaster or large incident. Then they turn on or set up repeater sites as needed. They are not supposed to be used for other things.

STRP=STATE REPEATER
STTA= STATE TALK AROUND
ALL 7 AND 8 CHANNLES ARE THE FEDERAL LIST. THEY CAN BE FOUND HERE: Common Public Safety - The RadioReference Wiki

Conventional	Input	Output	TONE
STRPT01	808.40000	UNKNOWN	293 NAC
STRPT02	808.46750	UNKNOWN	293 NAC
STPRT03	808.76250	UNKNOWN	293 NAC
STPRT04	807.12500	UNKNOWN	293 NAC
STRPT05	807.70000	UNKNOWN	293 NAC
STTA01	853.40000	NONE	293 NAC
STTA02	853.47500	NONE	293 NAC
STTA03	853.76250	NONE	293 NAC
STTA04	852.12500	NONE	293 NAC
STTA05	852.70000	NONE	293 NAC
7CALL50	799.24375	769.24375	293 NAC
8CALL90
8TAC92
8TAC93
8TAC94
7TAC51	799.14375	SAME	293 NAC
7TAC52	799.64375	SAME	293 NAC
7TAC53	800.14375	770.14375	293 NAC
7TAC54	800.64375	770.64375	293 NAC
7TAC55	799.74375	769.74375	293 NAC
7TAC56	800.24375	770.24375	293 NAC
7FIRE63	799.89375	SAME	293 NAC
7FIRE83	803.50625	773.50625	293 NAC
7MED65	799.39375	SAME	293 NAC
7MED86	803.00625	773.00625	293 NAC
8CALL90	806.01250	851.0125	156.7 PL
8TAC91	806.51250	SAME	156.7 PL
8TAC92	807.01250	SAME	156.7 PL
8TAC93	807.51250	SAME	156.7 PL
8TAC94	808.01250	SAME	156.7 PL

Your chart seems a little strange.

The output for STRPT01-04 should be 45 mhz higher or what you have for STTA01-04 (not sure what is going on with 02). STTA01-04 would not have an input as those aren't repeaters. The output would be the same as STRPT01-04. The STTA are just talkarounds of the STRPT.

 

[fireparamed1]

Your chart seems a little strange.

The output for STRPT01-04 should be 45 mhz higher or what you have for STTA01-04 (not sure what is going on with 02). STTA01-04 would not have an input as those aren't repeaters. The output would be the same as STRPT01-04. The STTA are just talkarounds of the STRPT.

My Chart was messed up because it was done by getting the Input using my radio and Close Call on my scanner for the channels. I don't have the excel spreadsheet from my radio programming in front of me to get anything else. (I meant to put SAME in the input and output for all of the simplex channels like RR does, just got distracted),

My ultimate point was that in Utah, we have 5 designated simplex talk around channels, (which are misidentified on the Utah Common/Shared page as Repeater channels) a handful more actual 800 MHz Utah State repeater channels (which are not turned on at all times) and the same with the NIFOG channels. In 30 years, I've yet to use a State repeater or NIFOG channel in any of its iterations. We've had State interop repeaters for years, like the SRS system etc. but they only seem to get used in Central and Southern Utah.

On these new radios and systems, and with the Public Safety spectrum 700/800 buildout and FirstNet, they are getting more serious about requiring radios to be programmed for multi state response to "Mass Disasters" which is great....unless it's a wildland call, then you better have a VHF radio or you are just plain screwed.

 

[gldavis]

I routinely monitor/scan the 5 State Repeaters (among many, many other things) and I occasionally will hear a "test", but that is all. A few years ago, Davis Co Jail was using one of the State Repeaters for inside comms. The day after I posted this in the forum here (due to a question that was asked), they disappeared. Go figure.

 

[enosjones]

There are 5 "Statewide Talk Around channels for the State they are programmed as:

STTA 1: 853.4000
STTA 2: 853.4750
STTA 3: 853.7625
STTA 4: 852.1250
STTA 5: 852.7000

These are frequently used when we go in buildings and the radio signal can't get out to a repeater. We will tell all units to "Go to Ground". Most agencies program one of these ground channels in one of the first three "Toggle Switch A,B,C" zones on their radios for ease of finding/using. They are often called "Ground Channels" by Fire and EMS.

Our real world testing of these channels is that they MAY get outside the building to the command unit. In outdoor use, they typically have about 1/2 to 1 mile range. Sometimes more, sometimes less. Our department uses them when they are backing up apparatus, or on the drill ground and not wanting everyone to be hearing that they are testing hose, or practicing talking while wearing an SCBA etc.

We are then required by federal rules to have certain 7CALL, 7TAC, 8CALL, 8TAC, and 7MED (Because we are Fire/Ems). Each of these are set up for repeater use, but broadcast in simplex mode until the repeater is turned on. I checked my radio today and each channel was broadcasting in Simplex mode on the Input frequency. (Still with NAC Tone) In Utah, these are the required Fire/EMS channels: My understanding is that they are all supposed to be in Simplex mode until needed for interop use in a disaster or large incident. Then they turn on or set up repeater sites as needed. They are not supposed to be used for other things.

STRP=STATE REPEATER
STTA= STATE TALK AROUND
ALL 7 AND 8 CHANNLES ARE THE FEDERAL LIST. THEY CAN BE FOUND HERE: Common Public Safety - The RadioReference Wiki

Conventional	Input	Output	TONE
STRPT01	808.40000	UNKNOWN	293 NAC
STRPT02	808.46750	UNKNOWN	293 NAC
STPRT03	808.76250	UNKNOWN	293 NAC
STPRT04	807.12500	UNKNOWN	293 NAC
STRPT05	807.70000	UNKNOWN	293 NAC
STTA01	853.40000	NONE	293 NAC
STTA02	853.47500	NONE	293 NAC
STTA03	853.76250	NONE	293 NAC
STTA04	852.12500	NONE	293 NAC
STTA05	852.70000	NONE	293 NAC
7CALL50	799.24375	769.24375	293 NAC
8CALL90
8TAC92
8TAC93
8TAC94
7TAC51	799.14375	SAME	293 NAC
7TAC52	799.64375	SAME	293 NAC
7TAC53	800.14375	770.14375	293 NAC
7TAC54	800.64375	770.64375	293 NAC
7TAC55	799.74375	769.74375	293 NAC
7TAC56	800.24375	770.24375	293 NAC
7FIRE63	799.89375	SAME	293 NAC
7FIRE83	803.50625	773.50625	293 NAC
7MED65	799.39375	SAME	293 NAC
7MED86	803.00625	773.00625	293 NAC
8CALL90	806.01250	851.0125	156.7 PL
8TAC91	806.51250	SAME	156.7 PL
8TAC92	807.01250	SAME	156.7 PL
8TAC93	807.51250	SAME	156.7 PL
8TAC94	808.01250	SAME	156.7 PL

Pre 700 the i heard them use the talk around channels, i have them programmed in my scanner, like 852.700 or 851.400. I haven't had a chance to search them used since the switch but the UCA radio techs used them quite a bit when they were working on the new system or when they were traveling between sites.