Statewide Wireless Network article

[c0untyb0y]

a conversation with the "schwin" guys

$2000 (most likely more) per radio (and portables) sounds about right, but a little on the low side. Then factor in installation, accessories, batteries and any other options, and it usually works out to $3000+, but I haven't done MA/COM pricing in a long time...but definately $2k+ each.

Then you will most likely be looking at system cost of $xx.xx per radio per month to be on the system---unless NY is going to make the airtime free of cost (which I don't see the greedy NY lawmakers doing)

heh... $2000 is low indeed.

I was at the New York State Fire Chief's Convention in Lake George last week. I spoke with a NYS SWN rep who was with some M/A COM guys. They quoted me $5000 for a mobile and $3000-4500 for a portable radio.

While I understand NYS won't pay a penny until they believe the network is up to their specs, but I'm pretty sure M/A COM and their dealers will profit when an agency buys a radio.

My other question to the SWN & M/A COM guys was, which I still didn't quite get a clear enough answer on, was basically this example:
Say I'm in Niagara Falls and I want to communicatie voice to a user in Yonkers. Will the SWN do this? Can I talk across the state or is this just limited to a "home area" so agency A can talk to agency B?

One of the other members of my department I was with asked the question regarding the use of our existing VHF radio system and the SWN (which the state guy kept calling "schwin"), specifically in the case of a long distance mutual aid call. As an example, he cited the Ice Storm of 1998 as his case. The answer with regards to SWN's interoperability to pre-existing VHF systems is essentially limited to "home area" use. Unless the destination location is already pre-configured to use our VHF equipment (what happens if my FD using VHF-Hi goes to a county with VHF-Lo or UHF?!) with a network interface to SWN, anything but SWN is useless in this situation.

Reading between the lines, it smells like SWN will probably be the only network supported by NYS for all mutual aid requests. I then wonder about channels like 45.88 and 155.370, or do these old VHF frequencies get a SWN network interface too?

If this is any real reassurance, the SWN guy and M/A COM folks were not able to provide many more details about this fantastic new radio system since the "final details have yet to be worked out". Take that for what it's worth.

 

[PJH]

If setup, if two people are using SWIN radios, they should be able to talk across the state.... IF the talkgroup doesn't have any restrictions on it and the users don't have any restrictions on it. With large systems such as this, talkgroups can be limited so that people don't eat up resources for stupid things.

As for long distance back to home setups, that would have to be prearranged.

I looked up one of the other contracts and found the closers prices (a couple of years old) and the price difference between the remote mount and dashmount M803 is quite extreme. They relased the Orion looking Opensky radio not too long ago, not sure what the pricing is on them yet.

 

[brey1234]

For $2 billion, the state is building the largest emergency communications system in the country. The wireless radio network, slated for completion in 2010, will allow any emergency service agency to send voice and data anywhere in the state.
State officials are now asking if the Southern Tier wants in.
http://www.pressconnects.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060623/NEWS01/606230330/1006

 

[PJH]

Broome County has some really nice tower sites. I believe the SWN guys being there was part of the tour.

 

[APX8000]

Well, all this talk about a Statewide radio system...a newly installed statewide M/A-COM EDACS system is getting Troopers in Florida to write over 150 complaints and call the media. As I said before, do your research and know what you are getting before you sign up.

As reported by WFTV Channel 9 in Orlando.....

New FHP Radio System May Be Putting Them In Danger

ORLANDO, Fla. -- A new radio system may be putting Florida Highway
Patrol troopers in danger. Their calls for help from Central Florida
might be answered by someone hundreds of miles away.

The multi-million dollar radio system is supposed to link every law
enforcement agency around the state. Troopers in Central Florida
just started using it and they said it is not working the way it
should be.

Troopers have written more than 100 complaints about the radios in
just the past month. In fact, more than a few of them, afraid to
appear on camera, have said they worry the radio could get one of
them killed.

In one case, a trooper in Longwood found his radio switching to
Jacksonville. A trooper in Apopka was talking to Dundee. A trooper
near Kissimmee was able to talk to Lakeland and Brooksville, but not
his own headquarters in Orlando.

Every day, the dispatchers field calls from troopers in the Highway
Patrol's Troop D, which covers six counties in Central Florida. But
those troopers said their brand new radios seem to have minds of
their own, switching to dispatch centers in other parts of the state
and breaking a lifeline they depend on.

"Most state law enforcement officers ride by themselves, so it's
crucial that we have that link to our dispatch in case something
happens," said Trooper Kim Miller, Florida Highway Patrol.

But one trooper didn't have that link when something happened to him
in the middle of the night. Someone tried to run him over in DeLand.
He tried to chase the suspect on foot, while calling for backup. But
during the pursuit, his radio switched frequencies and he wound up
talking to someone in Jacksonville.

The radios were supposed to make it safer for troopers when they're
called outside their usual district, so they can communicate with
dispatchers who know the local roads and can send help if needed.
But since Troop D came online just a month ago, dispatchers have
logged almost a 150 complaints from troopers, afraid to appear on
camera, who said their job's already dangerous enough. If their
lives are in jeopardy, they wonder if backup will make it in time.

Eyewitness News to the state agency that bought and maintains the
system, which said it was most likely just a training issue and that
many troopers may not have their radios set properly. That same
spokesperson said Troop D was given less training than any other in
the highway patrol. Troopers, though, said it isn't a training
issue, but a safety issue and they do not feel safe.

FYI...The Nevada State Radio System has had the same problem for years. All
it takes is a lot of programming forethought, not duplicating frequencies at different sites and not duplicating site ID's. The site changing problem is complicated by the fact that the radios use a built in algorhythm to determine the next site as they travel along. The list is updated by the sites as the radio travels. If 2 sites have the same ID (there is a limit to the total number available) it is possible for the radio to lose its mind and use the right ID at the wrong site. Once there it will lock on. I wonder if NY considered this.

 

[PJH]

Short of an actual tech issue, this very well could be user training isssues and just general hatred of the system.

When cops don't like something, you will see all sorts of greviences and the such pop up. Been there, played that game before. From what I have heard, the channels are very easily changed on some of MA/COM's newer radio's without you knowing about it. I have heard this has since been addressed.

In a wide area system, each site will have its own unique ID. You cannot duplicate sites at all. When the radio's need to change sites, it compares RSSI. That's how its based, and fairly uncomplicated. The NV system has only been operational for 2 years at the most...

If this is the actual case or not, we may never know.

 

[APX8000]

Not only did I appreciate your response, but your "I support single moms" logo makes me chuckle everytime I see it.

 

[PJH]

I forgot where I saw that, but I had to steal that pic. Love it!

So far from what I have heard, the PSP switchover so far is going "ok". However, only a few stations have made the swtich. It should be interesting as they roll out the PA system to the more geographically questionalble areas...but, so far so good.

Subject to change of course.