Subcarrier Communications Tower

[CapStar362]

im trying to identify what a Tower is providing services for.

Tower's ASR is here: ASR Registration 1023727

Its owned by Subcarrier Communications - and says its "Communications" related.


Here is the Street view of the tower

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.730...4!1sCBEhR4rhYLNI5dZsmFOSxg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


And here is the top down:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/3...m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d33.731192!4d-83.765876



Can anyone help me identify what this tower would be broadcasting/receiving/relaying?

 

[mmckenna]

I can't really tell you whats on their now, but the round structures at the top were for holding the microwave feed horns used by the phone company for handling long distance traffic. The Alcovy Mountain was one of the old AT&T Long Line microwave sites. One pair of antennas pointed at Athens GA and the other pair pointed at Rockdale GA. There's some good information on the old AT&T Long Lines systems on line if you are interested.

I did a geo search using the latitude and longitude of that tower on the FCC site, but it didn't turn up anything useful.

From the ariel view, the large gray building is likely the original AT&T facility. AT&T has shut down most of their long haul microwave links, so almost all these old Long Lines sites were sold off. Looking at the history for that tower, it looks like it's changed hands quite a bit over the years. This is pretty common.

The smaller white hut, near the truck, looks more indicative of a modern facility. As equipment got smaller, less space was needed. Hard to tell what's in that hut. Could be cellular, could be LMR.

It's hard to tell from the Google Maps, but I can't really see any antennas on the tower. That doesn't mean they aren't there, just that they may be blending in well. If you had some clearer pictures, we might be able to see something.

 

[mmckenna]

I'll add this:

When the tower belonged to AT&T and they had their feed horns up there, they were fed with waveguide, which looked like big pipes running from the building up the tower to the base of the feed horns. Those waveguides appear to have been removed.

If there was cellular antennas on there, they are usually fed using 1 5/8" Heliax cable, there'd be several runs of it. Those usually show up as a big black bundle of cables going up the tower, and I'm not seeing that on the google image. More modern cell sites just feed data and power up the tower and the radios are up at the antennas. But, again, on the image I'm not seeing the characteristic panel antennas that you'd find with cellular.

There appears to be something near the top. This could be something in use, or it could be left over from the AT&T days.
The brackets sticking out on the side of the tower below the mesh sections were for supporting the waveguides running to the feed horns from the AT&T days.

Likely you'll find these towers have point to point data links on them. There are companies that provide internet service via radio, and they seems to like these old towers. Their antennas are pretty small, so they'd blend in.

Would be interesting to know more.

 

[mmckenna]

A bit more digging....

AT&T owned it up until 2000 or so when American Tower bought it. After a few years, it looked like it got sold to an individual, then it was in a trust, then to another individual, then to Subcarrier Communications.

From my experience, I can tell you this:
AT&T sold it since they didn't need it. Cellular was well on it's way by 2000, and AT&T Wireless would have slapped cellular antennas all over that thing if it did them any good. Since they probably didn't, it's likely the tower wasn't in a useful location for cellular. Usually these microwave antenna sites were chosen to provide long distance point to point microwave shots, and that doesn't always translate into a good radio site for cellular or LMR use.

Looks like American Tower held it for a few years. I know from past dealings that AT will quickly dump a site if it isn't generating revenue. A large tower like that with an attached building would be a great facility. AT&T built a lot of these facilities to survive wars, so built like the proverbial brick outhouse. A facility like this would have a fair amount of upkeep. Tower painting, facility maintenance, insurance, taxes, etc. all add up quickly. They would need some large customers at a site like that to make it profitable. Based on the fact they sold it in a few years probably meant they never landed a bit customer. Again, likely the lack of cellular carriers led to this.

Then, the tower landed with a couple of (what looks like) individuals. This is often investors who buy these towers thinking they are going to make a killing off of the cellular leases. Considering a good cell site lease will net $1500 a month, and a big tower like this could easily hold multiple carriers, I'm sure someone got dollar signs in their eyes. As often happens, things don't pan out. Either they didn't do their homework, or just didn't understand the industry. Either way, it passed around, and looks like it ended up with Subcarrier.

Looking at Subcarrier, they seem to own a lot of towers are various places around the country. There are a number of these smaller companies that buy up these sites. Sometimes they are shell companies for a larger corporation. Sometimes they are just small companies trying to make it big.


So, who knows what's going on with this site. Looking at the tower on Google Maps from multiple angles didn't show anything that stood out as an antenna. Then again, the photos were from 2013, so a lot could have happened in 3+ years. The white hut near the truck looks new, so likely something going on. Still, a site like that is going to be expensive to maintain. There must be something on there by now. Newer photos would probably show it.
Current FCC searches were no help, but that only shows licensed stuff. There is a fair amount of license by rule services that could be on there. There are also millimeter wave microwave systems that don't need specific path licenses.
Amateur radio is a possibility, but the new white hut looks like it's sporting two big AC units, and that's getting pretty fancy for the hobby crowd.

Good luck figuring this out. Were you looking for something in particular, or just curious?

 

[ecps92]

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/General_Me...ortstring=,+lic_name,+file_num&limit_select=1
See the 3rd, 4th and 5th listings

im trying to identify what a Tower is providing services for.

Tower's ASR is here: ASR Registration 1023727

Its owned by Subcarrier Communications - and says its "Communications" related.


Here is the Street view of the tower

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.730...4!1sCBEhR4rhYLNI5dZsmFOSxg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


And here is the top down:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/3...m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d33.731192!4d-83.765876



Can anyone help me identify what this tower would be broadcasting/receiving/relaying?

 

[mmckenna]

Yeah, I saw those, but all expired or cancelled.

Still, with that newish looking hut, there's something going on at that site.

 

[ecps92]

Would not be the first or last user to operate on expired licenses.

Yeah, I saw those, but all expired or cancelled.

Still, with that newish looking hut, there's something going on at that site.

 

[CapStar362]

the first two entries is another tower that has no active lights on it within the same area. but it IS painted FAA Orange and White. that tower concerns me also, because its sitting on a hilltop. at night, NO LIGHTS. i've called about it, and got the usual BS and run around.

ASR Search for THAT tower says it belongs/ed to BellSouth.

Entry Number 3 says its "Inactive" so is the tower dead?



This is the first two entries Tower:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/M...d51275b6c63daf0!8m2!3d33.7948364!4d-83.713229


and here is the BEST view i can find of that tower on the Alcovy Hilltop.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/M...c63daf0!8m2!3d33.7948364!4d-83.713229!6m1!1e1


again, NO LIGHTS of any kind.




mmckenna here is a clearer view. and i have been to this site. one of my veteran buddies lives 4 doors down from this tower, it looks EXACTLY as it does in these images to this day. and the Street View is dated 2015

https://www.google.com/maps/place/M...c63daf0!8m2!3d33.7948364!4d-83.713229!6m1!1e1


i attached a zoomed in image of the area on the Atlanta Center FAA Sectional. notice the blue circle, that is where that tower is without lights, and its not even marked.

 

[mmckenna]

Entry Number 3 says its "Inactive" so is the tower dead?

It means the file is inactive, likely because the owner is deceased. The actual licenses have expried.

again, NO LIGHTS of any kind.

FAA can authorize a tower to not be lighted if it's been determined it's location doesn't require it. From the FAA rules:
"However, an FAA aeronautical study may reveal that the absence of marking and/or lighting will not impair aviation safety."

mmckenna here is a clearer view. and i have been to this site. one of my veteran buddies lives 4 doors down from this tower, it looks EXACTLY as it does in these images to this day. and the Street View is dated 2015

Could just be sitting idle. Taking down a tower this tall is an expensive proposition.

 

[mmckenna]

mmckenna here is a clearer view. and i have been to this site. one of my veteran buddies lives 4 doors down from this tower, it looks EXACTLY as it does in these images to this day. and the Street View is dated 2015

That's a better view.
I still don't see anything on the tower. The vertical part on the very top is/was often a lightning rod, specifically placed there to give a strike a path to the tower and the ground, rather than hitting the antennas directly.
Also, a bit of history, a number of these old AT&T Long Lines sites had a specific radio system on them for the US Government. The system was used by Air Force One for communications. Not all Long Lines sites had them, but they did have them on enough of these sites to cover the vast majority of the USA.

Again, could just be some WISP (Wireless Internet Service Provider) stuff on there. Some of their systems are license by rule, in other words, no actual license will be found on the FCC database. Often, their antennas are pretty small and only cover a few miles radius around the tower. Think "Point to Multi Point" radio systems. Customers would have a small antenna on their rooftop aimed at the WISP for their internet service. Pretty common in some rural areas.


And, as EPCS92 said, it certainly wouldn't be the first time that someone was continuing to operate under a long expired FCC license.

 

[mmckenna]

i attached a zoomed in image of the area on the Atlanta Center FAA Sectional. notice the blue circle, that is where that tower is without lights, and its not even marked.

That tower has been there for a long time. Those microwave systems of the phone company were installed in the 60's and 70's, some even earlier. So if it isn't on an FAA chart, it isn't because the tower is too new. Likely it's because the FAA doesn't think it's an issue.

Either that, or it's just a screw up. But we all know the Federal Government never screws anything up or makes any mistakes, right?

 

[ecps92]

Ahh, Yes the old Echo/Foxtrot
The Echo-Fox Presidential Aircraft Communications Network

That's a better view.
I still don't see anything on the tower. The vertical part on the very top is/was often a lightning rod, specifically placed there to give a strike a path to the tower and the ground, rather than hitting the antennas directly.
Also, a bit of history, a number of these old AT&T Long Lines sites had a specific radio system on them for the US Government. The system was used by Air Force One for communications. Not all Long Lines sites had them, but they did have them on enough of these sites to cover the vast majority of the USA.

Again, could just be some WISP (Wireless Internet Service Provider) stuff on there. Some of their systems are license by rule, in other words, no actual license will be found on the FCC database. Often, their antennas are pretty small and only cover a few miles radius around the tower. Think "Point to Multi Point" radio systems. Customers would have a small antenna on their rooftop aimed at the WISP for their internet service. Pretty common in some rural areas.


And, as EPCS92 said, it certainly wouldn't be the first time that someone was continuing to operate under a long expired FCC license.

 

[ab3a]

The FCC letter for this tower certificate REQUIRES lighting and painting.

I found the tower on the NDB-A approach procedure for the airport. There is a structure east of JNM NDB where I think this tower is, The procedure lists this tower altitude at 1116+/- ft. MSL. According to FCC survey data, this tower is 1184 Ft MSL. I think they're one and the same.

This tower may not be high enough to make it in to the clutter on a Sectional chart.

See https://skyvector.com/files/tpp/1608/pdf/06813NA.PDF for further details.

Note that aircraft are expected to be no lower than 1460 ft MSL on this approach procedure.

Estate ownership like this can take years to resolve, especially when they include commercial real estate assets like this. Since FCC records indicate the tower was erected in 1966, records and documents of this system may not be as complete or accurate as one might expect, Towers like this may be more of a liability than an asset. It may be enough of a liability that it would cost more to sell than it is worth.

 

[CapStar362]

My issue with the no lighting, its sitting on a hill and sticks pretty high in the air and is less than 5 miles from Monroe/walton county airport. It is also almost directly inline with the runway. Like ab3a says, its written as required. But they are non-functioning, ill try to get a good photo of the tower in the evening next time i head that way.

Ive seen this tower while flying, and even fsx has the tower. Alcovy hill is not as small as some think.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[CapStar362]

sorry i wrote my last reply from tapatalk.


now that im on my desktop

The FCC letter for this tower certificate REQUIRES lighting and painting.

I found the tower on the NDB-A approach procedure for the airport. There is a structure east of JNM NDB where I think this tower is, The procedure lists this tower altitude at 1116+/- ft. MSL. According to FCC survey data, this tower is 1184 Ft MSL. I think they're one and the same.

This tower may not be high enough to make it in to the clutter on a Sectional chart.

See https://skyvector.com/files/tpp/1608/pdf/06813NA.PDF for further details.

Note that aircraft are expected to be no lower than 1460 ft MSL on this approach procedure.

The Alcovy Hill Tower that i'm referring to is NE of the NDB. it might be the same tower we are discussing. alcovy mountain registers a 300 foot increase in terrain from the surrounding terrain, the tower is showing a 82m height above ground. that's 270 additional feet above the 1115 Foot MSL. there are A LOT of GA Private aircraft flying around Athens and Monroe. Helicopters also use that area a lot.

i've raised the concern that the tower is not functioning on its required lighting, but no one seems to care. Monroe/Walton CO brushed me off, Atlanta Center brushed me off, im thinking of writing the NTSB or directly to the FAA and CC'ing the FCC.

it actually sits on Alcovy Mountain at the peak.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/A...4be31780598482!8m2!3d33.7326144!4d-83.7446202

Pin drop is about 200-500 feet off the Tower. notice its almost inline with RWY 03.

i have included a Google Earth shot showing the direction of Monroe/Walton CO from Alcovy Mountain.
Follow the yellow Ruler Line from the Site to Monroe/Walton CO Airport

and also a street view :

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.736...4!1spkxEU7gPl0JL7zI7RQ4uKQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

its up there, and that hill is not that small.


see my sectional image.... that blue circle is where the tower is. and its not there. yet its sticking almost 300 feet above the near 300 foot hill its sitting on.

MSL Wise, that's ABOVE the 1400 low level restriction. the average altitude around that area is between 950-1050. the base of the tower shows 1186 MSL according to contour maps and terrain data from multiple sources. the top of the tower is 270 above that. which is 1456 MSL.



we have also kinda derailed,

last IIRC, there were no smaller antenna's on the original tower i asked about. the site is very derelict looking. hell, i think the Service lines from the street are even D/C'ed for GA Power service.

and my friend was curious about that tower as he wanted to know if it was still in service.

 

[ecps92]

Try this article for Contact Numbers
Reporting a Tower Light Outage to the FAA | Radio magazine

sorry i wrote my last reply from tapatalk.


now that im on my desktop





The Alcovy Hill Tower that i'm referring to is NE of the NDB. it might be the same tower we are discussing. alcovy mountain registers a 300 foot increase in terrain from the surrounding terrain, the tower is showing a 82m height above ground. that's 270 additional feet above the 1115 Foot MSL. there are A LOT of GA Private aircraft flying around Athens and Monroe. Helicopters also use that area a lot.

i've raised the concern that the tower is not functioning on its required lighting, but no one seems to care. Monroe/Walton CO brushed me off, Atlanta Center brushed me off, im thinking of writing the NTSB or directly to the FAA and CC'ing the FCC.

it actually sits on Alcovy Mountain at the peak.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/A...4be31780598482!8m2!3d33.7326144!4d-83.7446202

Pin drop is about 200-500 feet off the Tower. notice its almost inline with RWY 03.

i have included a Google Earth shot showing the direction of Monroe/Walton CO from Alcovy Mountain.
Follow the yellow Ruler Line from the Site to Monroe/Walton CO Airport

and also a street view :

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.736...4!1spkxEU7gPl0JL7zI7RQ4uKQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

its up there, and that hill is not that small.


see my sectional image.... that blue circle is where the tower is. and its not there. yet its sticking almost 300 feet above the near 300 foot hill its sitting on.

MSL Wise, that's ABOVE the 1400 low level restriction. the average altitude around that area is between 950-1050. the base of the tower shows 1186 MSL according to contour maps and terrain data from multiple sources. the top of the tower is 270 above that. which is 1456 MSL.



we have also kinda derailed,

last IIRC, there were no smaller antenna's on the original tower i asked about. the site is very derelict looking. hell, i think the Service lines from the street are even D/C'ed for GA Power service.

and my friend was curious about that tower as he wanted to know if it was still in service.

 

[CapStar362]

that number led to the NOTAM Posting hotline, so the person gave me the FCC Regional Ops Center number and FINALLY someone is noting it to be checked on.