Talking on ham frequencies

[kg4icg]

The thing is if you read the rules right you realize that the teacher must be a licensed ham radio operator for that to take effect. Read closely and you'll realize what i mean. Teachers can operate in the classroom while teaching. How do you think the ARISS program came about. It is sanctioned by the FCC. Basically some Teachers who are hams setup demonstrations for students and parents alike talking with the Astronauts on the International Space Station in which there are Licensed Hams whoo are in the space program transmitting on the clock. Now in the case of trying to use ham radio to run a private buisness , that's a no no.

R Collins KG4ICG

 

[cellblock776]

So a deputy out in his squad working could not use ham radio for anything but live or death reporting. This is not to say he can't talk on it to his friend while out working he just can't use it for anything he is being paid to do.

There is nothing wrong with a deputy calling in a storm report in this situation. He is paid as a deputy. The ham radio does not have anything to do with his salary and is not being used in place of public saftey radios for dispatching or other duties which is what the rule is there to protect against. You are reading to much into the rule.

 

[kg4icg]

Hey the higher ups in Fairfax County Police encourages there officers to become hams. As a matter of fact I know a couple of upper echelon officers who have rigs in there police cruisers also a Stafford County Deputy and a few other law enforcement and fire personel who have ham rigs in there official vehicles. Also let's not forget in case of weather emergencies that around here the NOAA office in Sterling Virginia has a ham radio station in it, and that some of the weather station personel are ham radio operators.

 

[DaveNF2G]

common sense

The test for all of this should be, "Would I be getting paid to be here or do this even if I did NOT have a ham radio with me?"

The teacher, the deputy sheriff, and the ESDA director all pass that test. Ergo, secondary use of ham radio, even if there is some tenuous connection to one's job, is legal.

I'm not sure why anyone would even question the legality of calling in a storm spotter report when it's perfectly OK to order pizza on an autopatch.

Let's be realistic, here.

To the extent that ARRL's interpretation prohibits operation of a ham station that is not specifically prohibited by FCC rules, it is incorrect. However, I don't think that's what they were saying in that email.

 

[KB9LIQ]

For our ESDA director is was not legal. He is paid by the county and storm spotting is one of his tasks. So he can't talk on the ham band to do this task. He can have a vol. talk on the ham band for him and his department. If the deputy is sent out to storm spot then he is being paid to do that so it would also be wrong to talk on the ham band unless it was live or death.

 

[INDY72]

By that logic SKYWARN and other programs like it are illegal hmmmm.. NOAA/NWS paid employee that is being paid to do the job of monitoring the HAM and PS radios for severe weather purposes by the aforementioned ideal would NOT be able to use siad HAM radio since he is a paid employee. So I think that thier is magor leeway on guidelines when it comes to this. The very reason that Stormspotters use HAM to communicate with local PS agencies and with NOAA/NWS is so that cellular and hardline phones will be freed up, among other reasons. Anyway this is just degenerating into another one of those fights over a basic guidelines that mainly are NOT really covering this situation, the rules in place are there to stop people from using HAM radios as a business radio. That is why the business radio service was invented! If your using a HAM to make $$$ then yes this guideline means your wrong. But when your not using the HAM radio to make money, then your clear if I understand the guidelines correctly. Anyone that is a HAM and is really involved in SKYWARN etc,.. please tell me if I am wrong. Just so folks know: I am seriously thinking of getting into HAM, I am severe weather trained as part of the Emergency Response courses I have taken and contrary to some beliefs, am not an idiot, strongly opionated on things yes. Stupid, NO! So yes I am doing my homework on this topic.

 

[mdulrich]

For our ESDA director is was not legal. He is paid by the county and storm spotting is one of his tasks. So he can't talk on the ham band to do this task. He can have a vol. talk on the ham band for him and his department. If the deputy is sent out to storm spot then he is being paid to do that so it would also be wrong to talk on the ham band unless it was live or death.

It would be a violation of the rules for the agency to use amateur radios as their primary means of communications. This would be using amateur radio on behalf of the employer. For example, the director couldn't send his deputies out in the field and use ham radios to coordinate their activities. This would be done over normal public safety radios. They would also use the PS radios to report storms.

However, the director (if he is a licensed operator) could take a call from a ham radio operator reporting a threatening storm. Otherwise the ham in the field is denied his available means of communications. Last time I checked severe storms and tornados have been known to kill people. Reporting them would be a matter of life and death.

Mike

 

[KR4BD]

:!: :!: :!:

This whole thread is getting nuts. I have known of several cops who have participated, ON DUTY, with SKYWARN nets when threatening weather is in the area. IT IS ONLY ILLEGAL if routine police dispatching or police business are conducted over ham frequencies. IN AN EMERGENCY, however, I am aware of ham frequencies being used for police business! Several years ago, there was a train wreck in the Dayton, Miamisburg, West Carrollton, Moraine areas of Ohio. The train had some sort of gas escaping and residents of several municipalities had to be evacuated. The involved police and fire departments were not able to communicate with one another during this emergency. The ham clubs in the area were called in and a ham was placed in each cop car, fire truck, ambulance, dispatch center, etc., and emergency communications were successfully carried on between the various agencies involved in the evacuation efforts. Without the hams, USING HAM FREQUENCIES for EMERGENCY POLICE BUSINESS, these agencies could not talk to each other. There have also been times when communication systems in hospitals have gone down and hams were called in to keep communications going.

YOU JUST HAVE TO USE YOUR HEAD. If you are getting paid for you ham services, it is illegal. Hams are volunteers in emergencies. Many firemen and cops are hams. As long as ROUTINE business is NOT conducted on ham frequencies, the FCC is not going to come down on you.

And as for Teachers, Please see my earlier post on this citing FCC rules which ALLOW paid teachers to use ham radio in a classroom.

Some of you read too much into this.

 

[KB9LIQ]

The involved police and fire departments were not able to communicate with one another during this emergency. The ham clubs in the area were called in and a ham was placed in each cop car, fire truck, ambulance, dispatch center, etc., and emergency communications were successfully carried on between the various agencies involved in the evacuation efforts. Without the hams, USING HAM FREQUENCIES for EMERGENCY POLICE BUSINESS, these agencies could not talk to each other.


The key there is they placed ham radio operators in all the cop cars, fire trucks and ambulances which mean that volunteers were doing the talking, which is legal. I agree that most of the time the FCC is not going to care too much but as I said our ESDA director was using all volunteer ham operator to do his storm spotting and dispatching but he can't use ham radio to talk to them unless it is life or death. I'm not sure getting a report of heavy rain or hail or even reporting a wall cloud is live or death. And if you remember the FCC say only if other means of comunication are not available. Also remember as quoted before. " Anyone may use any frequency to call for help in a situation that is an IMMIDIATE LIFE THREATENING EMERGENCY"
Local ESDA got their own talk group on the trunked system for storm spotting and gave out $1000 radios to each member so they can run the nets, that is other means of comunicating. They still use ham radio, but only with volunteer operators.
I'm just putting out my 2 cents worth, but $1000 each for radios could have got each operator and mobile and a portable ham radio instead of one Motorola portable. All this does seems crazy, just remember you can't receive money for using your ham radio.

 

[SCPD]

The sherriff's deputy who is a licenced ham operator would not have a conflict of interest in using his radio while working. If the police department used amateur frequencies for dispatch (while unlicenced), then it would be a different story. I knew a police officer in NY who used his amateur radio while in the patrol car to talk to another officer who was a ham while they were on duty. Is that a conflict of interest? This thread is getting a little nutty (as someone previously said). What about a trucker who reports an accident over the ham bands? Is he making an illegal transmission because he is being paid at the time of the transmission? I interpret the law as stating that someone who is being paid to specifically operate ham radio equipment, or is doing so for direct monetary gain is in conflict with the law. An officer who is in his legitimate capacity as a law enforcement official, who is a licenced ham, is not in conflict with the law. If he wasn't a licenced ham, that would be a different story.

 

[DaveNF2G]

I'm not going to continue to argue the rules in this thread.

I will say, very firmly and for all to see, that KB9ILQ's interpretation of the rules is ABSOLUTELY WRONG!!! It is far too narrow to accommodate the basis and purpose of amateur radio (see Part 97 Section 1).

There is no point in going further into FCC statements, ARRL publications, and the Rules themselves to disprove every assertion that KB9ILQ is making. Anyone who has an open mind and is truly interested can do their own homework. Don't let the "ham cops" like him discourage you from proper, lawful use of your ham radio equipment.

 

[KB9LIQ]

I'm not a ham cop to start off with. I don't think you are understanding what I'm wanting to say.
Maybe the best way to put it is this. If you are getting paid to say something on the ham band then it is wrong. So if a deputy is riding around on patrol and see something he thinks needs to be called into a net ( and he is a ham ) then I would think that would be OK, he is being paid as a cop and not storm spotting. But if he is paid to storm spot then I would say no.
A friend is a mail man and he talks on his ham radio all day long. No problem as he is talking with friend and family about anything and everything. Sometimes to truck drivers that are doing the same thing just passing the time of day. But if he needs a wrecker for his mail truck then he uses his cell phone to call that in and not ham radio, as he is being paid to be a mail man and that truck is part of his job. If the truck doesn't run then no mail is delivered.
Not trying to make this hard to understand, somebody else started this thread I'm just wanting to keep anybody from losing their ticket and maybe a radio or two.

 

[KR4BD]

:!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:

KB9LIQ

YOU ARE WRONG WRONG WRONG about all of this.

Here in Kentucky, the National Weather Service in Louisville has government meteorologists who are also licensed hams. Why? To communicate with trained storm spotters (oftentimes HAMS) who can give them Real-time reports on bad weather. These meteorologists are PAID with yours and my tax dollars to monitor the weather for the public. While on duty, and getting paid to watch the weather, these meteorologist (who are licensed hams) CAN LEGALLY communicate with hams regarding weather conditions. Many of us are registered with the NWS to provide weather reports via amateur radio for them.

Like NF2G, I am tired of trying to explain this to you (and others) who are mis-interpreting the law on this matter. Your Head cop (or whatever he calls himself) who prohibits his officers from using ham radio in emergencies is ALSO WRONG. Tell him I said so!!!! If I was a cop, I would have my ham radio with me AT ALL TIMES!! You never know when it would be necessary to use for police business if the main dispatching goes out due to a storm. It happens all the time.

You just don't use ham radio for routine business in any form.

I have been a ham for nearly 30 years and I know I AM RIGHT in what I am saying.

This will be my last comment on this matter.

You, my friend, can believe what you want!

 

[blantonl]

Locking, so this doesn't progress to blows.....