Technician privileges

[K5MPH]

One Thing that is certain and is never going to change is that people love to complain. I say do one test for one license class. Even when I was a Tech, I had countless Extras asking me questions to which they should have known the answer. Just because you are an Extra doesn't make you automatically know everything and there is still plenty to learn. The problem is once people get their ticket, they dump everything they memorized (I mean learned) and most never pursue learning anything else. A ham licCounense is supposed to be a gateway and should be the beginning of the learning, not the end.

I couldent of said it better than you did in part of what you wrote (Countless Extras and Generals asking me questions to which they should already know) I get this all the time and and man its got worst over the years,and yes I have been a Tech for 30 years I have even had a General ask me what a swr meter was ........

 

[rescue161]

I had an Extra ask me why I needed oil tanks for a repeater. He was referring to the duplexer and thought the RG-142 jumpers on the duplexer were oil lines. I have been asked numerous times how to calculate a 1/4 wave antenna length. I definitely do not know everything and try my best to continue to learn new things. I knew how to calculate antenna lengths and how to tell what bands a radio was on by looking at mobile or handheld antennas years before I was a ham. I learned that by reading a Police Call frequency book. I wanted to know how the public safety radios could be heard over the entire county when my CB couldn't be heard 2 miles away. I wanted to know more, so I read and researched as much as I could. This was way before the internet.

Making the Amateur Service into one license for all won't kill the hobby. What is killing the hobby is a lazy society. Instant gratification by having answers to all of your questions at your fingertips has reinforced to people that they don't have to learn anything. Why should I waste my time learning things when I can google something?

 

[K9DWB]

OK just hear me out. I see it this way: licenses just give you the legal ability or the right to do that which you're licensed. It has no real proof that you know how to do what you're about to do but that you're licensed to perform it. It proves you meet the conditions needed to be fulfilled to be licensed, period.Think of your vehicle license, just because you are licensed to drive does not mean you know how to do it well. The same can be said of ham. The reason for mentioning car licenses, look around at how many people are licensed and don't really know how to drive. And again point that to ham also.

 

[buddrousa]

The only point I will change is it is not a RIGHT it is a PRIVILEGE. You are born with RIGHTS you earn a PRIVILEGE.

 

[bill4long]

Making the Amateur Service into one license for all won't kill the hobby. What is killing the hobby is a lazy society. Instant gratification by having answers to all of your questions at your fingertips has reinforced to people that they don't have to learn anything. Why should I waste my time learning things when I can google something?

I have a fairly liberal attitude toward all of this, but I hasten to encourage people to read 97.1, which defines the purpose of the Amateur Radio Service. Seems like a lot of people are losing sight of that.

 

[bharvey2]

I had an Extra ask me why I needed oil tanks for a repeater.

It wasn't obvious that your repeater was oil-cooled? They do get warm from use you know.

 

[W5lz]

I have a fairly liberal attitude toward all of this, but I hasten to encourage people to read 97.1, which defines the purpose of the Amateur Radio Service. Seems like a lot of people are losing sight of that.

.......and it is a requirement!

 

[WB9YBM]

OK just hear me out. I see it this way: licenses just give you the legal ability or the right to do that which you're licensed. It has no real proof that you know how to do what you're about to do but that you're licensed to perform it. It proves you meet the conditions needed to be fulfilled to be licensed, period.Think of your vehicle license, just because you are licensed to drive does not mean you know how to do it well. The same can be said of ham. The reason for mentioning car licenses, look around at how many people are licensed and don't really know how to drive. And again point that to ham also.

Certainly a good bit of reasoning on modern testing methods. It didn't start that way, though: for example one friend of mine who got licensed circa WW II explained how his license exam included the requirement that people taking the test needed to draw a schematic of a radio, including showing their calculations for determining the parts values. Not showing your work was one way to flunk! And this was back in the era of slide rules--calculators did not exist back then. Back then it was definitely a case of quality, not quantity! Of course that still leaves the question of practical experience--but at least they had a good foundation...

 

[GlobalNorth]

Back in the day...

Well then, let's go back to the day - today.

Who can sit down today and build a modern transceiver from random parts bin? ICs, computer logic, and all of it. No search engines and I'll spot you the HP-35S for ease or a K&E Log Log DeciTrig slide rule to prove 'old school' credentials.

Knowing how to rebuild a carburetor does not make one an ASE Master Technician and the lack of carburetors on today's autos does not make one stupid - CANbus logic systems aren't for the uneducated. It is evolutionary progress. Besides, living in SoCal during the smog alerts in the 1960s was not fun with all the air pollution.

 

[K5MPH]

But wait

OK just hear me out. I see it this way: licenses just give you the legal ability or the right to do that which you're licensed. It has no real proof that you know how to do what you're about to do but that you're licensed to perform it. It proves you meet the conditions needed to be fulfilled to be licensed, period.Think of your vehicle license, just because you are licensed to drive does not mean you know how to do it well. The same can be said of ham. The reason for mentioning car licenses, look around at how many people are licensed and don't really know how to drive. And again point that to ham also.

But wait when you go get and test for your License for a vehicle you have to demonstrate to the instructor setting next to you that you can operate the vehicle and on the written test the answers are not available to you before the test this is part of the problem people dont have to show to the VE what they should know before they get their license memorizing something and really knowing are two different things......

 

[rescue161]

I had several UHF 1/4 wave (6 inches long) NMO antennas that I was selling (giving away) at a local hamfest. There were several hams, one of which is an Extra, that asked if they were 2-meter antennas. That is basic knowledge that a Novice class should be able to identify. Should hams be required to be able to sit down and draw out the schematic for a transceiver? I don't think so, but basic, simple things like antenna measurement formulas are very easy to learn and extremely useful. Over time, the urge to learn anything has diminished to the point that if you can identify a PL-259, an Anderson Power Pole and a Baofeng radio, then you must be a knowledgeable ham!

I don't have a problem with people that don't understand things because like I mentioned before, I don't know everything. What really bothers me is when Extra-class folks look down their noses at Generals and Technicians, because they think they are smarter than them, because they passed a test. Just because you pass a test does not make you an expert. Like I said before, once the test is over, you should not stop learning.

 

[WB9YBM]

Who can sit down today and build a modern transceiver from random parts bin? ICs, computer logic, and all of it. No search engines and I'll spot you the HP-35S for ease or a K&E Log Log DeciTrig slide rule to prove 'old school' credentials.
Knowing how to rebuild a carburetor does not make one an ASE Master Technician and the lack of carburetors on today's autos does not make one stupid.

Just on a quick scan of the internet, typing in "radio on a chip" showed me instructions of how to take a single I.C. and build my own radio. It's certainly a lot simpler than the old way of doing it with all those discrete parts assembled separately.

As for the ASE Master Technician comment--if that's anything like some of the college graduates I've met, yeah there's a gap between having the degree/certificate and actual field experience (aka "graduating from the school of Hard Knocks"). The degree helps a lot in understanding the nuts-and-bolts of why something works the way it does, but that doesn't mean you know which end of the soldering iron to grab...some of the best engineers I've met are those that worked their way up through the ranks from field tech / lab assistant to engineer.

 

[mmckenna]

some of the best engineers I've met are those that worked their way up through the ranks from field tech / lab assistant to engineer.

^ this. I've found the same thing, and I work at a research university. The paper degree is useful, but it doesn't guarantee knowledge.
Heck, I manage 4 engineers, all of them have degrees of various sorts, including one that did a few semesters at Oxford. Me, I've got a high school diploma, a DD214, GROL, a lot of various community college classes, and more vendor training than I can remember. Add in 30 years of doing this stuff and getting paid well for it.

Degrees/licenses don't mean much on their own. People have to have the knowledge, skill, experience and aptitude to back it all up. Since everyone has different learning styles, it's difficult/impossible to try and cram everything into one license/degree.

 

[WB9YBM]

Degrees/licenses don't mean much on their own. People have to have the knowledge, skill, experience and aptitude to back it all up. Since everyone has different learning styles, it's difficult/impossible to try and cram everything into one license/degree.

I agree, and can add an example of my own: when I worked at the Corp. R&D lab at Motorola, at one point we got a few newly minted engineers, some bragging about having a master degree. Yeah, they had good book knowledge but until they realized things are a bit different out where the rubber hits the pavement it seem like at least a few times several of us had to dive for the "off" switch on a project until these gentlemen got the hint

 

[mmckenna]

...until these gentlemen got the hint

It's kind of fun when they start arguing with you, then it just gets annoying.

 

[WB9YBM]

It's kind of fun when they start arguing with you, then it just gets annoying.

Yeah--too many self-proclaimed "experts" out there--and the louder they yell, the more wrong they seem to be. That's why I've gotten into the habit of leading with results of my own tests, or quote a good resource--anything to head them off at the pass! (And if they still don't want to get it, oh well...)

 

[ladn]

Chuck Yeager, perhaps the best pilot the Air Force ever produced, started as a mechanic.

 

[ai8o]

Back in the day...

K&E Log Log DeciTrig slide rule to prove 'old school' credentials.

<snip>

OOH! you had a K&E!
I am jealous!

When I was in school I had to settle for cheap plastic Sterling Products units that had A,B C,C1, D, and K ,and had to do a lot of extrapolating.
I thought it was it was neat just to have pi marked on the A scale

I just couldn't afford K&E prices.

I got my first electronic calculator in 1973.

You are making me feel old.

 

[ladn]

OOH! you had a K&E!
I am jealous!

When I was in school I had to settle for cheap plastic Sterling Products units that had A,B C,C1, D, and K ,and had to do a lot of extrapolating.
I thought it was it was neat just to have pi marked on the A scale

I just couldn't afford K&E prices.

I got my first electronic calculator in 1973.

You are making me feel old.

I couldn't afford K&E either, but I compromised and got an aluminum alloy Pickett (which I still have). I got my first calculator about the same time--it was just a "four banger" (add, subtract, multiply, divide). Worked my way up through several TI's with advanced functions, but I never owned (or needed) a graphing calculator. One of my TI calculators has accompanied me to every amateur radio license exam, Novice to Extra.

 

[AK9R]

As a VE, we allow amateur radio Technician license applicants to borrow a basic, 4-function calculator though they treat them with the same disdain they reserve for music CDs. That said, the connection between Technician license privileges and slide rules is a little tenuous. Let's get back on topic.