troymail
Silent Key
In my case, I create favorites lists from the database using Sentinel. Generally the only changes I make from there are setting system, site, and department quick keys.
Testing reveals why my 536 so often stops with no audio and then resumes
- Thread starter wm8s
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In my case, I create favorites lists from the database using Sentinel. Generally the only changes I make from there are setting system, site, and department quick keys.
Ok, I'll jump into this fray, again. I have been experiencing this since day one - Motorola Type II Analog. All I hear is that it is a setup problem, though I haven't seen any way to cure it. I have tried all of the tidbits (modulation off auto, squelch adjust, etc) found in various places and have slightly improved this, though it did get worse w/ the firmware upgrade. I also tried reverting to a new 'clean' FL with all of the defaults left in place. Still no satisfaction. I miss a lot of traffic.
I posted this video in my state forum, but here is a link. This is a BC785D and 536HP held on the same random TG, sharing the same antenna through a Stridsberg, LMR-400 cable, etc.
The 785D is set on a lower volume, so when the audio gets louder - that is when the 536HP actually receives. If you listen closely, the 785D beats the 536HP almost every time. Sometimes by a fraction of a second, some times by an entire phrase. This is just a random sample. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFxsKCeJxB4
I have noticed, but not really quantified that the problem seems to get worse later in the day when the system has more traffic. I'm not sure if this is relevant, real or imagined.
I posted this video in my state forum, but here is a link. This is a BC785D and 536HP held on the same random TG, sharing the same antenna through a Stridsberg, LMR-400 cable, etc.
The 785D is set on a lower volume, so when the audio gets louder - that is when the 536HP actually receives. If you listen closely, the 785D beats the 536HP almost every time. Sometimes by a fraction of a second, some times by an entire phrase. This is just a random sample. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFxsKCeJxB4
I have noticed, but not really quantified that the problem seems to get worse later in the day when the system has more traffic. I'm not sure if this is relevant, real or imagined.
LIScanner101
Completely Banned for the Greater Good
Thanks for the link.
I don't understand why some people are having this issue and some report not to have it at all.
Seems there are varying degrees of the severity of the issue, but the common theme is that it, while I have seen some reports of the x36HP beating out another model and/or brand, by far it's the opposite.
Thanks again for the video, good stuff.
I don't understand why some people are having this issue and some report not to have it at all.
Seems there are varying degrees of the severity of the issue, but the common theme is that it, while I have seen some reports of the x36HP beating out another model and/or brand, by far it's the opposite.
Thanks again for the video, good stuff.
For now, I think I've figured my problem out. The cause of the 1.5 to 2.5 second delay before audio decodes appears to be that the 536 does not like a SanDisk 32 gb class-10 card that has a lot of user-recorded audio files on it.
I set all of the system's sites to P25 Wait Time = 0 and Mode = NFM (this does not appear to matter). All experiments were done holding on one system, one site, and one TG (this also did not appear to matter).
With the old µSD card, recording off, audio came out of my 536 about 300 ms after my APX. With the old card and recording on, about 500 ms.
With the new card with about 3 gb of audio files (about 76,000 clips), recording off, still in the 300-500 ms ballpark. With the new (full) card and recording on, 1.5 to 2 seconds. Ouch.
On a hunch, I deleted all of the recordings from the new card. Now it works comparable to the old card (250 to 300 ms recording off, 300 to 400 recording on).
I don't have the patience to test whether other brands or other class cards would have the same problem if full versus empty; maybe they all would slog down the 536. I'll update this if anything changes.
I set all of the system's sites to P25 Wait Time = 0 and Mode = NFM (this does not appear to matter). All experiments were done holding on one system, one site, and one TG (this also did not appear to matter).
With the old µSD card, recording off, audio came out of my 536 about 300 ms after my APX. With the old card and recording on, about 500 ms.
With the new card with about 3 gb of audio files (about 76,000 clips), recording off, still in the 300-500 ms ballpark. With the new (full) card and recording on, 1.5 to 2 seconds. Ouch.
On a hunch, I deleted all of the recordings from the new card. Now it works comparable to the old card (250 to 300 ms recording off, 300 to 400 recording on).
I don't have the patience to test whether other brands or other class cards would have the same problem if full versus empty; maybe they all would slog down the 536. I'll update this if anything changes.
Interesting comments. I also note that my button presses are slower when P25 channel on, and even slower when record is also on. Also may explain why I seem to have more initial cut-off of sentence when listening to playbacks of recordings made during day, then when I listen directly with record off in the evening. Maybe it is a "too big load on the processor thing."
Now it makes me think, maybe this is one of the problems with the Wi-Fi Siren delay. Perhaps when that is added into the equation, things really get bogged down. Don't know, but seems like that could be a real potential problem, trying to run other apps on top of everything else.
Kind of like all the apps that are available for our smartphones. You put enough of them on, the things slows down, and the battery goes down real fast. In the end, your phone has to be a phone, anything else is a bonus, but you want that basic function to be solid.
Extrapolating to scanners, perhaps that is what we are seeing. Try to put too much into the system, and your basic functions of scan speed, decoding, and opening up when conversation starts may begin to suffer. Just a thought, but it is beginning to look that way from some of the comments on this thread.
Steve AA6IO
Now it makes me think, maybe this is one of the problems with the Wi-Fi Siren delay. Perhaps when that is added into the equation, things really get bogged down. Don't know, but seems like that could be a real potential problem, trying to run other apps on top of everything else.
Kind of like all the apps that are available for our smartphones. You put enough of them on, the things slows down, and the battery goes down real fast. In the end, your phone has to be a phone, anything else is a bonus, but you want that basic function to be solid.
Extrapolating to scanners, perhaps that is what we are seeing. Try to put too much into the system, and your basic functions of scan speed, decoding, and opening up when conversation starts may begin to suffer. Just a thought, but it is beginning to look that way from some of the comments on this thread.
Steve AA6IO
Respectfully, I dispute that; I have no lost calls whatsoever, and I am using a Sandisk SDXC Class 10 32GB card (the one which is red-and-grey instead of black). I don't have an APX to test with, but my XTS3k as well as listening side-by-side with a Centracom console has proven pretty reliable.
This is what made the improvement here.
Also people need to understand that configuration of each trunk system (on "their" side of things) can affect reception.
Rob,
Thanks for going the extra mile to pinpoint this.
Is this scanner perfect? No, but I also don't believe it's as bad as what some people make it out to be.
It is interesting that Jason uses a SanDisk without issue.
I don't believe changing the P25 Wait Time should affect anything since the TG's are flagged as analog only...but I could be wrong. See below from a Wiki article...
P25 Waiting Time - (In the Conventional systems and Motorola site menus) On channels that contain a mix of analog and digital signals (i.e., where the Audio Mode is set to All), it is possible to have false decode problems caused by digital noise at the beginning of transmissions. To prevent this, a user-configurable P25 wait time (default 400ms; 0 to 1000 ms) has been added. During the wait time, the scanner evaluates the received signal; if it detects P25 data, the scanner opens squelch immediately. If it does not detect any P25 data, the scanner opens squelch as soon as the wait time expires.
Note: Any analog transmissions on this channel will lose the first part of the transmission, up to the wait time you set here. Select the number of milliseconds (after the start of a transmission) the scanner should wait while checking for P25 data. Choose a number from 0 through 1000 ms in 100 ms increments. The scanner only applies the wait time setting to Conventional or Motorola (non P25) systems, and only when the channel's Audio Mode setting is All.
LIScanner101
Completely Banned for the Greater Good
I believe the problem as reported by wm8s is NOT the type or size of the card but whether or not it has a lot of recorded data on it. In other words, "full" cards are causing the chopped off conversations. Is that correct wm8s?
That is more or less correct, LIScanner101. I was very careful to say that I don't know what brand or class of cards might also have this problem, but that when my SanDisk class-10 32 gb card had 75,000 recording files on it, my 536 took 1.5 to 2.5 seconds to start playing audio through the speaker (and was also noticeably unresponsive on button-presses), and that when the same card had no files on it, it only took about 0.3 seconds to do so. All of my experiments were done with P-25 wait time = 0 and mode set to NFM, including the ones with the long delay, so that can't possibly be responsible. Jay911 disputes that this happened; I don't know how, since he wasn't here in my shack. I think perhaps what he's trying to say is that he's had a different experience. I don't dispute that. I'm just saying exactly what I observed and the only reasonable inferences from it.
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LIScanner101
Completely Banned for the Greater Good
Jay911,
Are your cards pretty full with recordings? If not, then your experience may not be accurately comparable to wm8s'.
Are your cards pretty full with recordings? If not, then your experience may not be accurately comparable to wm8s'.
I haven't let it fill up to maximum yet, no. The most it's had was a hair over 3.0GB (audio files, not including the operational files & data). I'll leave it now (been recording a couple days) and see what happens. It will take some time to fill up a 32GB card, though.
And just to pick nits - I wasn't disputing whether or not something happened, I was disputing that the delays were caused by a card with "a lot" of files on it. I considered 3GB of files to be "a lot"; I'm willing to be proven wrong. Right now, my radio has only 413MB in \BCDx36HP\audio\user_rec\. I'll leave the files on there (I record constantly) and see what happens.
And just to pick nits - I wasn't disputing whether or not something happened, I was disputing that the delays were caused by a card with "a lot" of files on it. I considered 3GB of files to be "a lot"; I'm willing to be proven wrong. Right now, my radio has only 413MB in \BCDx36HP\audio\user_rec\. I'll leave the files on there (I record constantly) and see what happens.
The sole difference b/w my 0.3 second response time and my 1.5 second response time was that the card had a lot of audio files. And mine wasn't full; it had about the same amount as yours (about 3 gb). (And it's one of the red/gray SanDisk cards, too.) I have two [theoretically] identical cards ordered at the same time. They appeared genuine. I'll try the other one and report back. Perhaps I got a bad card, or a bad batch of them, or the card's free space had become badly fragmented. Or... :wink:
One thing which may be of note here.
Reading peoples' comments over time I've seen a number of items where using anything above a class 6 card, whatever that is, has caused issues. I know I've seen negative comments about the compatibility of class 10 cards. May not be this exact issue but there have been enough comments made to stand out. Original and class 4 cards seem to work best if those aren't the same thing.
Another things is the P25 threshold level. I know at some settings it clips the beginning or end of the transmission. DaveIn came up with a method to really help that by setting the level about 5. It helped a lot not only with that issue but with breaking up, and picking up transmissions at all or sites at all.
Reading peoples' comments over time I've seen a number of items where using anything above a class 6 card, whatever that is, has caused issues. I know I've seen negative comments about the compatibility of class 10 cards. May not be this exact issue but there have been enough comments made to stand out. Original and class 4 cards seem to work best if those aren't the same thing.
Another things is the P25 threshold level. I know at some settings it clips the beginning or end of the transmission. DaveIn came up with a method to really help that by setting the level about 5. It helped a lot not only with that issue but with breaking up, and picking up transmissions at all or sites at all.
Another possible piece of the class puzzle: I read another thread here where someone said that he noticed his "cross-talk" (the squeals, whirrs, pops, clicks, wheezing, and other noise where some digital bus is bleeding over onto the audio circuit) was much louder when he used a class-10 card over the stock class-4 or whatever it is. I honestly though, yeh, right, what a nut.
But mine does exactly the same thing. With my SanDisk class-10 card in the 536 and the volume turned down all the way, the noise on a commercial external speaker is noticeable and annoying; I can't imagine how bad it would be on an amplified speaker. With the stock card in, it is audible but just.
But mine does exactly the same thing. With my SanDisk class-10 card in the 536 and the volume turned down all the way, the noise on a commercial external speaker is noticeable and annoying; I can't imagine how bad it would be on an amplified speaker. With the stock card in, it is audible but just.
AZScanner
Member
That is absolutely bizarre. Whoda thunkit?
God, I miss when scanners were just simple little things you punched some numbers into from a frequency book and then called it a day. The only thing all these complicated gadgets I own now have led me to do is resume drinking. I still don't know what all the features of my new 436 are - I'm at a point where it works the way I want it to and I don't want to give it an excuse to suddenly stop and require a couple frantic hours of confused button pushing until I undo whatever the hell I just did to it.
Anyway, thanks for confirming that - one more piece to the puzzle for the rest of us.
-AZ
There is also something about speakers, headsets etc. where its picky about what kind you can use. I seem to remember amplified was definitely not to be used for the 536 but you might want to double check.
Also something about stereo vs mono and needing an adapter. I don't know if any of the problems could be related to that or not. Just throwing out stuff, maybe some will stick.
A couple of interesting things which may or may not mean anything or help.
One is I tried changing my sites on a VHF P25 system from 400ms to 0ms and surprisingly for me I got what everyone was complaining about. The bleed over, pops, clicks, missing beginning of transmissions or missing entire transmissions. Really loud on the bleed over too. Also of note it almost seemed to be bleeding over another TG into the one that opened the squelch.
The other is that today when I put the waiting time back to 400ms I also found all the TGs in the system were set to all as an audio type. I went in and changed all of them to digital and when I restarted the scanner I was shocked at the clear difference it made.
I thought I was receiving the system really well with the 400ms but with the audio type change added to it I found out I didn't even know just how bad it had been until the change.
Basically all problems/issues have disappeared. Full clear transmissions with nothing missed and no clipping at beginning or end. Some of that is because of going back to the 400ms but there is a lot of improvement due to the audio change as well.
Hopefully this might help someone.
It's really weird its almost like what works on some doesn't on others when I'd think there would be fairly standard results for all with the same changes.
One is I tried changing my sites on a VHF P25 system from 400ms to 0ms and surprisingly for me I got what everyone was complaining about. The bleed over, pops, clicks, missing beginning of transmissions or missing entire transmissions. Really loud on the bleed over too. Also of note it almost seemed to be bleeding over another TG into the one that opened the squelch.
The other is that today when I put the waiting time back to 400ms I also found all the TGs in the system were set to all as an audio type. I went in and changed all of them to digital and when I restarted the scanner I was shocked at the clear difference it made.
I thought I was receiving the system really well with the 400ms but with the audio type change added to it I found out I didn't even know just how bad it had been until the change.
Basically all problems/issues have disappeared. Full clear transmissions with nothing missed and no clipping at beginning or end. Some of that is because of going back to the 400ms but there is a lot of improvement due to the audio change as well.
Hopefully this might help someone.
It's really weird its almost like what works on some doesn't on others when I'd think there would be fairly standard results for all with the same changes.
Meskoman
Member
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2007
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That is a good question. When you go FL, system and then department clicking on each department shows the audio type for each TG but once you enter the edit FL screen that disappears from it as an option.
I can't find out how to do it in Sentinal.
I noticed and changed mine in ARC436 where it was real easy to do. Maybe someone with more experience can chime in with more directions but right now I'm just not seeing it.
Sorry I didn't think to check all platforms before posting. I don't understand why its not showing up as an option to edit in Sentinal.
Set audio type in the favorites editor (ctrl +2 or the star with pencil icon). Probably doesn't show up in the main part of Sentinel.
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