The future of DMR...Where is it heading?

[AI7PM]

.....First, to those who think you have the right to talk anywhere you want:
You don't. ........ The repeater owners bought the stuff. The repeater owners pay for the links, the maintenance, the infrastructure, etc. The majority of the users have never pulled a penny out of their pocket towards supporting the system. .......

AMEN!

I am continually shown in practice, that the loudest and most critical users bring nothing to the table, but more wants and criticism. Not just in digital, but in single site analog as well. Repeater owners/operators are treated as a public utility, but the customers don't pay and don't want to pay.

DMR was never designed for around the world contact at one's whim. Maybe stick to HF if that's what you want. All of the necessary ingredients are your's to control and pay for.

It's great that we CAN have large areas of coverage on DMR (DSTAR, NXDN, Fus, whatever), but not it's primary design.

Amateur radio being what it is, we take things and see what else we can make it do. If someone else is making it do something, and you have the PRIVILEGE of using their stuff, try thanking them occasionally. Otherwise, get your own equipment and set it up to your liking.

Rant over.

 

[N4GIX]

It's the same timeslot. 3 separate conversations?

Timeslots are tied up at each repeater individually as I understand it. If you have 20 repeaters in a network, six of them could be locked on the same TG, while three other repeaters are on a different TG, all while the remaining 11 repeaters are cheerfully chatting away on yet another TG...

...yet all 20 have their slot 2 occupied.

Of course if all 20 were currently occupied by the widest area TG, that's a different proposition. None of them could "break away" to another TG on the same time slot, as far as I know.

BTW, I'm seriously considering buying my own repeater purely to give everyone local to me the option for Brandmeister. We already have a very robust system here in Gary, Indiana as part of the Hoosier DMR Network, and frankly I like the current arrangement where all repeaters share a common "template" of talk groups. But, it certainly wouldn't hurt to allow for even more options!

 

[W2GLD]

I'm not going to quote your whole thing W2GLD but want to comment on a couple of things you and said:

Question 1: Do you really need WW on your machine? Letting go of it frees up traffic. Other than maybe the WW net on Saturday morning, how many users of YOUR repeater would miss WW? (BTW: I didn't know there was a US talkgroup already). Could WW be a ptt, as opposed to a nationwide talk group? I just don't see the romance of just having to have WW on every machine. I don't scan it, mainly because I have a dickens of a time on DMR understanding our friends on the other side of the pond.

Second thing is you list 3 local talkgroups for the Philly/NJ area on the same time slot. Why have more than one? Think about it for a moment.
Kinda like Mi5 and it's 4 statewide talk groups. Why have more than 2?

And N8GIX, what I'm proposing intentionally ties up every repeater. A nationwide talk group all by itself on one slot, hopping all day and all night like a rabbit on a date. Right now for the most part DMR is quiet, at least around my parts. A QSO on NA is frowned on, What's the point of taking it somewhere where only two people hear it? How popular would 2M or 440 be if, as soon as you started a QSO on a machine, you had to QSY to simplex? For DMR to stay popular, hams are going to want to be listening to QSO's. Sure most won't participate, but they will enjoy listening. If you intentionally gag NA, they will drift back to analog FM, looking for something, anything to listen to. And another comment you said about analog repeater owners frowning on extended QSO's, I just don't see that. I'm not saying I've been inn this hobby a long time, but my first 2 meter mobile was a crystal controlled Heathkit I built myself. And I've never heard "Don't tie up my machine" until DMR came along.

To your first question, why get rid of it, it's a hailing/calling talkgroup; by your logic, we should get rid of all calling frequencies because they are just taking up space. What if a users is seeking a QSO from anywhere/anyone, where would he call out that he is monitoring for a QSO? If said ham wants to explore other cultures and countries, why should he be restricted just because you think it's taking up a space? Ham one and ham two both took the same test and both have equal access. You make a contact on WW TG and then move your QSO to a available tac channel; a very simply process that everyone needs to learn. Hell, if public-safety workers do it, why can't we. Move your non-essential traffic elsewhere.

To your second comment regarding my Philadelphia example; say you have one repeater in Center City Philly, the guys are chatting locally of a topic that is no concern or interest to those perhaps listening in NJ or DE; they can simply use TG# 9 on that one repeater and the other say 6-8 repeaters remain free for other use. So by this logic, a group in Southern New Jersey could be holding a net on say TG# 2 with a group of repeaters; all the while the Philly guys remain on their own until the holdoff timer expires (meaning there is no more local traffic). Holdoff timers are key and they've been around since the dawn of the c-Bridges and the same goes for BrandMeister. None static (i.e. full-time) talkgroups are held for 15 minutes, if there is no keyup on the local system that requested the PTT talkgroup, it goes back into standby and the timeslot is freed up for whatever else.

I'm in Michigan as well and I full understand the limitations the Mi5 system has, but that system was designed for a different purpose in the beginning, but when not being used for bike races, weather events, etc. it could be used for other purposes, but that group has to decide to do that; while unlikely in the near future, Mi5 is also available on BrandMeister as well; in-case you weren't aware. BrandMeister users have access to "Mi5-Statewide 1 on TG# 31261" and "Mi5-Statewide 2 on TG# 31262" and well as two events talkgroups.

If the Mi5 plan of attack doesn't suite you, then by all means, become self-sufficient as I have done. Build either a repeater or a DVMega device and become the master of your own domain; then you can choose your own talkgroup plan. You've gotta pay to play, I didn't like all the restrictions, so I created my own playground and never looked back. When I travel, I use the same frequency and color code throughout the country and all talkgroups are at my fingertips with just a MMDVM and a cellular modem in my vehicle. The rest of my time I'm on HF while mobile; no restrictions and I can enjoy various aspects of amateur radio, both analog and digital; you can too...

 

[N4GIX]

And N8GIX, what I'm proposing intentionally ties up every repeater. A nationwide talk group all by itself on one slot, hopping all day and all night like a rabbit on a date.

Seriously? You think it's a "Good Idea" to have potentially over a thousand repeaters keyed up for hours and hours on end? Are you planning on paying for the cost of blown finals or other damage caused by overheating, the electric bill and the added costs for those poor owners who're on metered internet (or worse yet on 3G or 4G)?

Never mind, it's a rhetorical question.

 

[N4GIX]

You make a contact on WW TG and then move your QSO to a available tac channel; a very simply process that everyone needs to learn. Hell, if public-safety workers do it, why can't we. Move your non-essential traffic elsewhere.

While that has been the intention all along, unfortunately, that simply will never work unless the majority of networks and local repeater owners will carry at least the most common PTT TGs.

Many is the time I've had to settle for a wham-bam QSO where barely any words were exchanged simply because the two of us had no PTT TG in common. That is precisely why I'm very close to buying a 'spare DMR repeater' my friend W9CTO has offered to me. The only think holding me back right now is waiting for the coordination of a frequency.