The Good Old Days

[jonwienke]

I didn't mean to stir anything up by posting my opinion but I supposed that is inevitable. jonwienke your opinion on technology is yours and yours alone and to be respected. Actually, I think respecting other people's opinions comes with age.

Actually, age gives (or ought to give) one the wisdom to know which opinions are worth respecting, and which opinions aren't. Some folks are of the opinion that it is acceptable to marry and impregnate a 9-year-old, but I feel no obligation to respect that one.

 

[pinballwiz86]

I think you need to sit down and program your scanners the right way. We've never had it better in terms of technology! You really are missing out..

This is how I organize my BCD436HP/BCD536HP. I just punch in the quick key number that is in parenthesis (which helps me when I am toggling things on/off), and then hit enter to toggle systems on/off. I don't have everything selected to scan in order to speed up the boot up process. I change that up depending on my location. I am using almost every quick key.

 

[bobmich52]

Factually deficient...I like that. Is that new? I'm going to write that down - thanks!

I just had to chime in

I go back to the days in order to change frequency's on my regency rock bound, I had to take the cover off & change the crystals

"Factually deficient"

Does that mean "Alternative Facts" lol

FYI I am a conservative that is DISGUSTED with the political process as a whole

I do agree with the posters that say civil discourse is a vanishing breed in this world

I do find on this site that certain people with their knowledge talk down to people here & consider them "Factually deficient" & let them know it in no uncertain terms& instead of helping them along or putting 4th their thoughts in a respectful manner

here's what makes this site great

Was having a computer issue the other day( I'm no Bill gates) & all of my online research I found Zip

Last gasp effort, I posted my issue on the tavern here & ( Thank you I monitor) He pointed me to a great site & 10 minutes later my issue was resolved

Point is you can share knowledge in a respectful manner no matter what your opinion may be

In closing

I have been a member of this site since 2004 with 400 + posts over that time( not that many really), & I have noticed a deterioration of respect & after reading some of the disrespectful Bullshapoopy of this thread, I finally felt I had to express my constitutional rights to free speech

RESPECTFULLY

Scanning since the early 1970's

 

[jonwienke]

Like I said, if you have a problem, ask a question. Posting a rant full of easily-refuted "alternative facts" doesn't describe the issue you're having in terms that facilitate actually solving the problem.

 

[spongella]

Just came in from outside, gave a good yell at the clouds...I feel better now .

Hi Hi just kidding!

 

[slicerwizard]

I finally felt I had to express my constitutional rights to free speech

You have no free speech rights on a private website. And respect is earned. Whiny ranting deserves little respect.

"Whah!"

"Cut the crap."

"Y U so disrespectful? Sad..."

 

[bobmich52]

Like I said, if you have a problem, ask a question. Posting a rant full of easily-refuted "alternative facts" doesn't describe the issue you're having in terms that facilitate actually solving the problem.

Have you ever considered just talking to people instead of down to people ??

Can you easily refute that??

Slicer wizard

Typical comment (SAD)

Its a huge reason that I RARELY comment on any forum

A Vast majority of the Folks on this site are helpful without being condescending to others

Which category do you fit in??

Respectfully submitted

 

[NC1]

So I found out why the DMR repeaters were dropping like flies around here.

There were 2 basic reasons:

1) DMR does not do well at all in this hilly terrain. Many people with tons of experience tried to overcome the problem through much trial and error, but it simply can't hold a candle to analog. Not going to happen.

2) People tend to prefer the simple and reliable. Why fix what ain't broke? Not only that, but more people can afford the cheap analog radios and be on the air in minutes. It just works better.

I'm sure DMR has it's place, and it may be growing, but it is going to hit a plateau soon and recede back some.. As for here, analog is King and always will be.

 

[TailGator911]

Thanks for that, pinballwiz86, I like how you have all of your systems arranged. My goal is to get my scanner as organized as that, and know how to navigate the systems as I want to. The actual keystrokes. Just 1 and enter, or .1 enter or .01 enter or 01 enter, or do you have to enter the sequence to get to the correct department, or channel in that particular system? You have to know that correct sequence to toggle between systems and sites? Do you keep a legend on hand (a guide) for all of the key sequences to bring up a particular system?

Thanks!

 

[TailGator911]

Have you ever considered just talking to people instead of down to people ??

Can you easily refute that??

Slicer wizard

Typical comment (SAD)

Its a huge reason that I RARELY comment on any forum

A Vast majority of the Folks on this site are helpful without being condescending to others

Which category do you fit in??

Respectfully submitted

Great point, bobmich52. This website was created for just that purpose, to be a clearinghouse of information for people to network and exchange ideas, facts, instructions and product knowledge. There are great people here who take the time to help others and offer their skill and intelligence.

Some people here give (or like to give) the impression they must have sat down to a new WINXP computer and just KNEW it and didn't have to ask a single question. I admire that, I really do. They should be teachers and leaders of men with that kind of intelligence. Not anonymous little trolls who like to insult other posters without provocation and try to ruin the topic of conversation. Shame on you.

 

[jonwienke]

So I found out why the DMR repeaters were dropping like flies around here.

There were 2 basic reasons:

1) DMR does not do well at all in this hilly terrain. Many people with tons of experience tried to overcome the problem through much trial and error, but it simply can't hold a candle to analog. Not going to happen.

DMR is nothing more than an alternative modulation technique, and it will propagate exactly the same as an analog FM signal of the same power on the same frequency. If you try to run DMR on a UHF frequency in hilly terrain, it will work poorly, and so will analog FM. About half of the ham activity in my area is DMR, but it's mostly VHF rather than UHF.

2) People tend to prefer the simple and reliable. Why fix what ain't broke? Not only that, but more people can afford the cheap analog radios and be on the air in minutes. It just works better.

That's your opinion, which isn't shared by everyone. There are cheap and decent DMR radios out there, like the MD-380, which cost less than name-brand (Yaesu, Kenwood, etc) analog radios.

 

[NC1]

DMR is nothing more than an alternative modulation technique, and it will propagate exactly the same as an analog FM signal of the same power on the same frequency. If you try to run DMR on a UHF frequency in hilly terrain, it will work poorly, and so will analog FM. About half of the ham activity in my area is DMR, but it's mostly VHF rather than UHF.



These were 2m repeaters and they did not perform with DMR nearly as well as analog. Evidently they are not the same. These were real-world scenarios with real-world installations, and analog unanimously won. And yes, we all know UHF is not as good as VHF in this terrain.

All I know is these people who tried tirelessly to make it work can't be wrong. When 60 or so people witnessed the deficiencies with DMR, it is extremely hard to write off the factual results and summarily dismiss with opinion and theory.

I'm guessing you are on relatively flat terrain where you do not experience the issues, but throw in some big hills & valleys and the conclusion is that it's performance is undesirable when compared to analog. That's just the way it is.

 

[pinballwiz86]

Thanks for that, pinballwiz86, I like how you have all of your systems arranged. My goal is to get my scanner as organized as that, and know how to navigate the systems as I want to. The actual keystrokes. Just 1 and enter, or .1 enter or .01 enter or 01 enter, or do you have to enter the sequence to get to the correct department, or channel in that particular system? You have to know that correct sequence to toggle between systems and sites? Do you keep a legend on hand (a guide) for all of the key sequences to bring up a particular system?

Thanks!

Thanks. Yes, exactly. It is just hit 1 and enter to toggle it on and off.

I wanted to keep it very simple and not have to do deal with 1.1.1 or such nonsense. The only downside as you see, is that I am using almost every quick key. But, I have a list on my cell phone that groups them and I know which number goes to what. The other purpose of labeling my systems (1), (2), (3)...etc is that it allows me to turn a system off instantly by just seeing the number on the screen! No need to look at my cell phone list to find out which number belongs to which system.

 

[jonwienke]

I'm guessing you are on relatively flat terrain where you do not experience the issues, but throw in some big hills & valleys and the conclusion is that it's performance is undesirable when compared to analog. That's just the way it is.

Nope. Southern Pennsylvania, with the northern end of the Appalachians making things definitely not flat. And it's not "opinion and theory" when I listen to the repeaters around me.

 

[bobmich52]

Thanks. Yes, exactly. It is just hit 1 and enter to toggle it on and off.

I wanted to keep it very simple and not have to do deal with 1.1.1 or such nonsense. The only downside as you see, is that I am using almost every quick key. But, I have a list on my cell phone that groups them and I know which number goes to what. The other purpose of labeling my systems (1), (2), (3)...etc is that it allows me to turn a system off instantly by just seeing the number on the screen! No need to look at my cell phone list to find out which number belongs to which system.

Now this is the way This site Should be

Helpful & learning from others

Take note & you know who you are.

The world would be a better place


PLU

 

[TailGator911]

pinballwiz86, I will definitely incorporate your system into my own, if you don't mind. Seeing the number of the QK on the alpha-tag is a great idea. I keep a notebook (day-planner type) by my side at all times with everything backed up in there for reference along with codes and signals and district maps, etc. Your system would eliminate some of the guesswork when navigating the systems in a timely and efficient manner - I like it!

Thanks much, pinballwiz86, as bobmich52 said, this is the way this site should be!

 

[NC1]

Nope. Southern Pennsylvania, with the northern end of the Appalachians making things definitely not flat. And it's not "opinion and theory" when I listen to the repeaters around me.

Well then, I don't know what the difference is. None of the 3 DMR repeaters here could compete with analog. The repeaters had good elevation at around 2,200 to 3,200 feet. Maybe you have more of a flatter surrounding terrain than here. I don't know.

I guess if you look at the two experiences, the possibility of putting up a DMR repeater and having it beat analog will be hit or miss at best given similar conditions. I would think that if the signal had been at least marginally acceptable, they would not be going back to analog.

And this is where all this new technology brings us. Some love it and some don't. Neither is right or wrong, I think it's more a matter of replicating the process and getting identical results. I'm just not seeing the same result.

 

[bob550]

Everyone has their own comfort level with technology. I don't know, but maybe it's the way our brains are wired. Face it, some people can sit down and easily sketch a person's portrait with great detail and beauty. Others couldn't come close to creating art with a gun to their heads. I honestly don't think age has all that much to do with embracing technology either. At 67, I am quite comfortable with today's technological advances, and look forward to what the future will bring. Having scanners that are computer programmable are the answer to a prayer for me, and I'd never want to go back to the "old days". I have been able to easily master multiple programming formats, with almost no help from this or any forum or website. But, that's me. It's not everyone. It's not right, and it's not wrong, but it is what makes us all unique.

 

[jonwienke]

Well then, I don't know what the difference is. None of the 3 DMR repeaters here could compete with analog.

There's any number of possible causes. Lower output power, link configuration issues (if the repeaters were connected to DMR-MARCS or whatever), interference (if the repeaters were not on the same frequencies as analog), and any number of other things if the DMR repeater was compared to a different analog-only unit.

I've done comparison testing with dual-mode radios, where the same transmitter, receiver, frequency, power level, antennas, coax, and locations were used to compare analog FM and DMR, and there was little, if any, difference in maximum usable range when an actual apples-to-apples comparison was made. So I know from experience that when DMR is done right, it will at least match the usable range of analog FM.

 

[lmrtek]

I totally agree!
I want a direct entry keypad not software written by someone who writes video game code.
And i don't EVER want to have to do a "firmware upgrade"

These software developers are totally clueless as to how to make it user friendly.
And if you need a pc to program a radio or scanner then you are doomed in an emergency.
I want radios that work independent of computers, software, and grid power.
And nothing made today can do it so when a disaster hits, most will be off the air.