The SDS series and Scanning in East MA? Is It An Upgrade?

[EastCoastSunrise]

So I am thinking about getting an SDS series scanner to upgrade my 325P2 which was it has served me well, now it does not serve my needs as well as I first thought. Given that I live in Eastern MA and as most of us know the Boston Metro Area is a mess right now when it comes to being one type of system. Given I monitor plenty of conventional and both of the trunked systems regularly I need something that has good performance on not just the 700-800 Mhz systems. In doing some reading it sounds like the SDS line does not preform as well on conventional when compared to scanners such as my 325P2. Anyone had this experience or am I reading into it a bit to much? That is my main concern with getting an SDS right now is the analog performance not keeping up with the digital side. If the SDS scanners are not good performers on analog are the 436 and 536 any better given they were not built with simulcast in mind.

 

[gordon115]

I agree the SDS and 436/536 do not do as well on conventional systems (analog or P25) based on my personal experience. In side by side comparison the 325P2 and 996P2 will hear quite a bit more on conventional systems in side by side comparisons. I believe it's as simple as lower sensitivity on the 436/536 and SDS radios. I've never had issues with either 325P2 or 996P2 on MSP, Cambridge or metro area 700 systems which are all simulcast. If reception isn't good, moving the radio a bit usually fixes the problem in my experience.

 

[EricRF]

I live in the Boston area, and just upgraded from a BC125AT to an SDS100, mostly because my local dept went digital. I've only just broken the surface of programming, but have a couple of things that might help:

• On my local now-digital system, reception is crystal-clear
• On a still-analog system I monitor, reception is very poor compared to the BC125. Very staticky. Kind of disappointing. Some people suggested trying different kinds of filtering, but didn't help me. The speech is understandable, but more garbled on the SDS100.
• I've got it programmed for some local trunk systems, but either I didn't do that quite right, or they've been quiet.

Hope this helps.

 

[Firefox10]

I have a SDS 100, HP 436, and 996P2, and home patrol 2. i live in eastern ma more towards to NH border. In my opinion, the 436, 996P2 and HP2 work very well. The SDS 100 is a piece of trash. Cold solders, returns, tinney speaker just are a few of my reasons. I monitor MSP A/H/SOPS, local UHF and BPD, BFD all which receive fine when in distance. Audio quality great, workhorses, no problems opposed to the SDS. My best bet is my HP 436. Nothing beats my APX 8000 but 436 is close. Selling off SDS, HP2, at Nearfest in October.

 

[ACKStatic]

I have to agree with the above. The SDS is better at decoding P25 simulcasts, but very poor on analog (trunk and conventional). I live in Boston and my 996 and 396 are still my go-to for all around performance. I literally only use my SDS when I travel and don't have time to program. If you're looking for P25 trunk performance., invest in a Unication G5. It's a great radio, but you really don't need it for eastern Mass (yet). I use it for Cambridge, Massport, and when I'm in Worcester. Great radio.

 

[Firefox10]

Why do you recommend the G5, but not for eastern ma? curious, never looked into Unication

 

[garys]

I think he meant to listen to MSP. They will be building out he P25 trunk system over the next few years and then you'll need a P25 Phase 2 capable scanner. Since each area will use simulcast, you'll need either an SDS or something else that can handle LSM.

Back when the SDS scanners were announced, it was known that they were designed to deal with LSM simulcast systems and analog was not going to be as good as earlier scanners. OTOH, they a superb on P25 and more and more systems are transitioning. Part of the perceived problem is because digital audio quality with weaker signals doesn't drop off like it does with analog. If you look at he RSSI readings digital versus analog you'll see how fast analog audio drops off while digital remains clear.

Why do you recommend the G5, but not for eastern ma? curious, never looked into Unication

 

[EastCoastSunrise]

Based on what I've read from all these reply's so far it seems that on the new trunk the state is building out its a good buy. But for conventional UHF and even digital UHF in the 400 Mhz band even when P25 its not worth spending the money? People have said that new hardware versions have improved reception, this true in anyway or just a nothing burger? Also the conventional frequencies I'm looking to monitor are with in 15 miles for the most part. Are the SDS's issues more at longer range or does its worse reception show even at close range?

 

[EastCoastSunrise]

I think he meant to listen to MSP. They will be building out he P25 trunk system over the next few years and then you'll need a P25 Phase 2 capable scanner. Since each area will use simulcast, you'll need either an SDS or something else that can handle LSM.

Back when the SDS scanners were announced, it was known that they were designed to deal with LSM simulcast systems and analog was not going to be as good as earlier scanners. OTOH, they a superb on P25 and more and more systems are transitioning. Part of the perceived problem is because digital audio quality with weaker signals doesn't drop off like it does with analog. If you look at he RSSI readings digital versus analog you'll see how fast analog audio drops off while digital remains clear.

So do you think it is worth it? I saw in a different thread in this forum that the SDS blows the 436/536 out of the water. So is it just a matter of setting it up right and using the right antennas etc? Or do you notice a comparatively worse experience compared to older scanners? Is it just worth buying setting up and giving a shot? Worst comes to worst I return it and get my money back right?

 

[Nascar18]

I always thought that we ask to much out of one scanner. It looks like the SDS scanners are designed for P-25 phase 1 and 2 simulcast systems. When CoMIRS comes on line in the D Troop area we will see a big change and will probably have to get a SDS scanner to continue listening. Plus they are putting a simulcast site just 2 miles from me which I am sure will cause some issues. I think it's a wait and see how my 996P2 works out before I make a purchase on a future scanner. Will we see a new SDS or simulcast type scanner who knows and how much do you want to spend on one.
The other thing to worry is how much encryption is the CoMIRS system going to bring. I listen to the RISCON system in RI and if you listen to the RISP you never hear any cruiser to cruiser traffic and all there license checks are done on a encrypted channel.

 

[garys]

There will be some encryption on the new system, but since agencies often listen to each other I don't expect the troop dispatch channels to be encrypted. Don't forget that in vehicle computers and smart phones are also used for secure communications.

I suspect that people using scanners in fixed locations might have more success negating the LSM issues than people driving around.

Keep in mind also that it's not just trunked systems that can have simulcast sites. The Quincy PD digital system has multiple sites around the city.

 

[StoliRaz]

I always thought that we ask to much out of one scanner. It looks like the SDS scanners are designed for P-25 phase 1 and 2 simulcast systems. When CoMIRS comes on line in the D Troop area we will see a big change and will probably have to get a SDS scanner to continue listening. Plus they are putting a simulcast site just 2 miles from me which I am sure will cause some issues. I think it's a wait and see how my 996P2 works out before I make a purchase on a future scanner. Will we see a new SDS or simulcast type scanner who knows and how much do you want to spend on one.
The other thing to worry is how much encryption is the CoMIRS system going to bring. I listen to the RISCON system in RI and if you listen to the RISP you never hear any cruiser to cruiser traffic and all there license checks are done on a encrypted channel.

I'm taking more of a wait and see stance on the new CoMIRS system. I always hear some people say they get absolutely nothing while another person says they have no trouble at all with simulcast on their 436/536/996P2 etc..it all depends on location, wall insulation, which way the wind is blowing and if George ate pizza on a Tuesday...or luck, in other words. If I'm that close to a site I think I'd try the old paperclip antenna..maybe in my basement to boot

 

[Citywide173]

I always hear some people say they get absolutely nothing while another person says they have no trouble at all with simulcast on their 436/536/996P2 etc..

What are those with "no trouble at all" comparing it to? I thought my PSR600 was receiving RISCON well-until I got my G5. It wasn't until I was running them side by side that I realized the PSR600 was only receiving about 60% of the traffic. You don't know what you don't know and if they don't know they're missing traffic, they'll tell you everything is fine.

 

[garys]

I have found that when traveling through CT prior to buying a SDS200, I had good results using auto threshold with my 536HP. OTOH, setting it to 5 resulted in a deaf scanner on the CSP system. On my several trips through CT since buying the SDS200 there don't appear to be any dead spots.

As I previously stated, it's possible that if you are sitting with the radio in a fixed spot, you may not notice any distortion. On the 700Mhz Overlay, my 536HP receives well south of Boston. The only site I have a good Line of Sight to is the Blue HIlls. Reception is no different than on the SDS100 sitting on the desk next to it. I haven't programmed that system into my 325P2 since I use it for local listening only. Maybe some day I will to see how well that works.

 

[Scanner-geek]

For an all around performance scanner, I find the 536HP performs quite well on all systems, and I prefer it easily over the SDS 100. I would only invest in a G5 right now if you are looking for P25 P2 trunk performance.

 

[garys]

Except that the display on the 536HP has never been as bright as it should have been. Even after the recall program where they put new displays in, it's not really bright enough for mobile use.

 

[ACKStatic]

I know this is a bit off topic, but I was picking up Wilmington, DE PD P25 trunk clear as day in Nantucket this weekend with my 996XT, which is ten years old. I know there was a hurricane offshore which may have been creating some unusual atmospheric conditions, but that is nuts.

 

[StoliRaz]

I know this is a bit off topic, but I was picking up Wilmington, DE PD P25 trunk clear as day in Nantucket this weekend with my 996XT, which is ten years old. I know there was a hurricane offshore which may have been creating some unusual atmospheric conditions, but that is nuts.

A few winters ago I was getting CBS Pittsburgh on my car stereo while driving up I-95 south of Boston, clear as day it sounded as strong as any Boston station. Happened for several nights in a row before losing it.

 

[EastCoastSunrise]

I though that I would provide an update now that it has been a while and I have had some time to think it over. After much waffling around I decided to bit the bullet and I bought and SDS100 from Scanner Master last week along with a Remtronics 842S SMA antenna. Now that I've had the weekend to get it roughly programed with all the systems that I had on my BCD325p2 (For which I now have a year of experience programming and playing around with it. And I am still learning every day) and have used it for a little while I have these thoughts. Reception on the Mass State Police system (An analog trunked Motorola Type 2 system) is crystal clear with no random drops or stutters like I had on my BCD325p2 with a Dimond RH77CA antenna, which I had narrowed down to simulcast distortion issues. I also often monitor the new P25 Phase II system known as CoMIRS. It sounds as good and clear as the MASP system there are no simulcast issues and units sound clear. But living in the Boston Metro Area, there is still a lot of conventional systems that I monitor frequently. In my experience systems that were on the choppy side (even with full bars, for me its Medford Fire even though I am close to their transmit sites) or systems with a lot of noise, or a lower signal strength are doing better in my experience. However, this is not with out downsides. In my experience so far of ONLY a few hours mucking about and doing the bear minimum in terms of programming. I have noticed that some systems that were for the most part relatively clean audio wise have a bit more static and noise than my 325p2 when I have them running next to each other. Dont get me wrong, the SDS still sounds good and audio is still audible but has a bit more white noise in the audio at least to my ears. I am sure that I will be able to improve the audio with some more time diving in to the settings and filters which I know can help in these regards, I just have not had the time yet to really dive deep and really nail the programming. As for the programming of the radio, its just as easy if not more so, when using ProScan. I have played with Sentinal and its good and will do every you need to do in terms of programming. However I am more comfortable using ProScan, and some of its logging features, so for now Ill be sticking with it for now. As for all the info you need to add to the radio there is more to add and set up when compared to my BCD325p2, but it takes just as long and now that I am used to it is something I am comfortable doing and can do it with ease. On radio programing is much the same if not out right faster and simpler than my BCD325p2. The ZIP programming feature works well and if and when I travel it will be something that I will really find will come in handy. At home though, I dont need it as I just program my favorites and use those. However adding frequencies is easy todo and I have no real remarks there. As for the unit its self, its bigger than my BCD325p2 but I prefer it to my BCD325p2. The wight and grip feels really solid and good quality. The weight is lower on the unit when hung from my belt which feels better and will hopefully offset the high up weight that a larger antenna such as my RH77CA. The screen is nice and bright, and I think that it could have wider viewing angles but I understand that it might not have been possible.

In the end its a great machine! It doesnt have any game breaking issues or problems, its a different radio, it has a learning curve. I boil some of the complaints people have lodged about analog UHF is not the case for me. It is DIFFERENT than what I get on my BCD325p2 but it is no slouch and will preform well in lots of situations. The Simulcast P25 sounds better than ever and has made the upgrade worth it already. If you live in Eastern MA, and are in a similar situation as me, I say get it even if your on the fence. I think that you'll find that you'll fall in love with it.

EastCoastSunrise