Thinking about going D-Star

[newsphotog]

As a new ham (got my ticket 3 weeks ago), I'm following this thread with interest, and have a few questions about D-STAR. It does seem that it's growing in popularity exponentially, and my questions are:

1. Why is it becoming so popular given the fact that it uses a proprietary codec and requires a specific brand rig?

and

2. Echolink does not require specific hardware (Icom), is open, and can be run the same way (accessing enabled repeaters), so what would be the reason to choose D-STAR over Echolink?

For instance, I have a Yaesu FT-250R monoband VHF HT right now. All I need to be is in range of an Echolink repeater, and I can connect to other linked repeaters globally with my existing rig.

Can someone shed some light?

73!

--Loren

Congrats on your ticket!

The D-STAR protocol is not exclusive to Icom. You do not need an Icom rig to be on D-STAR. There are a lot of adapter boards, homebrew solutions, and tools like DVAP and DV-Dongle (DV Dongle) that you can get on D-STAR with.

People like using D-STAR it because it has data (messages, images, files, etc) transmission capabilities, Echolink does not. The voice quality is great! Echolink is primarily linking, when D-STAR offers linking too and so much more. Check out some screenshots of D-RATS: Screenshots

The OF's who make a big deal about it being "proprietary" are in the minority (very vocal minority) and don't really hinder the popularity. It's popular because people enjoy playing with D-STAR. That's kinda like asking "why is steak good, when vegans say it's immoral to eat meat?"

 

[pianotech]

Congrats on your ticket!

The D-STAR protocol is not exclusive to Icom. You do not need an Icom rig to be on D-STAR. There are a lot of adapter boards, homebrew solutions, and tools like DVAP and DV-Dongle (DV Dongle) that you can get on D-STAR with.

People like using D-STAR it because it has data (messages, images, files, etc) transmission capabilities, Echolink does not. The voice quality is great! Echolink is primarily linking, when D-STAR offers linking too and so much more. Check out some screenshots of D-RATS: Screenshots

The OF's who make a big deal about it being "proprietary" are in the minority (very vocal minority) and don't really hinder the popularity. It's popular because people enjoy playing with D-STAR. That's kinda like asking "why is steak good, when vegans say it's immoral to eat meat?"

Thanks for the info! I'm glad you answered, because it looks like I was wrong in some of my information; glad to have been set straight!

So with the dongle then, I could just plug it into a laptop, for instance, and access repeaters that way, similar with accessing Echolink via a computer on one end?

Also, very cool about being able to send data. I might have to give it a try. Thanks again for the info!

73

Loren

 

[newsphotog]

So with the dongle then, I could just plug it into a laptop, for instance, and access repeaters that way, similar with accessing Echolink via a computer on one end?

That's exactly right!

I also believe you can use D-RATS with a DV Dongle to pass data between you an an RF station.

 

[KJ4OHY]

I might be able to shed a little light on the matter. I have never used echo link in the 3 years I've had my license. I went with d-star over the other digital modes because it was the only ham built system. I was much more interested in P25 systems, but one they were quite a bit more expensive than d-star radios, and two, d-star was built with hams in mind. For instance any d-star radio you buy, you can go to vfo mode and key in memory channels on the go which is great for traveling to new places or emergency communications (and you don't have to pay extra $$$ for FPP). Some of my friends have used echo link (it''s not that expansive where I currently live) and according to them it's not as quick and seamless as call sign routing or d-star repeater linking. Unfortunately d-star isn't all that expansive my area as well, but there are a few repeaters (not a lot of operators), but of course you can transmit in fm and fmn. I'm sure that different ham based radio companies will put out they're form of digital radios, but until then there is really nothing to compare d-star with in terms of ham built systems. Hope this sheds some light.

 

[kv5e]

My Take on D*

I am sure that some folks might debate the opinions but here's my take:

Plus

1. Spectrally efficient and works well in 10 kHz channels with a little separation with adjacent 10 kHz channels is fine with 12.5 kHz
2. Good MOS on voice with well implemented infrastructure
3. Voice and data interleaved on the channel with a simpler control plane than P25/DMR - 2400 bps with 1200 error correction on DV , about 900 bps with no error correction on the interleaved data frames - FEC is open and left to the user
4. Native routing in Icom implementation uses call signs in a source routing scheme , think of the call signs as "routing addresses"
a. Originating call sign is MY call which is set in the endpoint radios in the native scheme
b. Destination call sign is the desired station called UR call - CQCQCQ is anyone , or a specific user or Repeater Port in native format
c. Repeater 1 call sign enables routing on the RF PHY layer locally at the repeater. This tells the controller to repeat the transmission
d. Repeater 2 call sign enables routing through the gateway to other repeaters or users
There is a management table that stores the My call from the last known transmission and that provides forwarding of transmissions for that user when their call sign is placed in the UR Call field and transmitted to a gateway enabled repeater
5. Designed for amateur radio and not a commercial product and the call sign system is a plus for linking as that is the way hams think
6. Third party middleware and hardware developed that links repeaters, access points, computers via IP linking into a unified network with simpler linking paradigms than the Icom Native routing scheme. DPlus, DExtra, DV Dongle, Hot Spots, DVAP - ham designed and added onto the Icom framework
7. Widest acceptance and largest network worldwide of DV for amateur radio
8. High speed ethernet bridge DD system on 1.2 GHz (expensive) for TCP/IP communications capability
9. Roll your own repeaters and gateways now available

Minus

1. Icom repeaters are mediocre quality and only "bent pipe" design with no FEC at the repeater and poor or non existent diagnostics available
2. Native Icom routing is idiosyncratic and does not unify users together into a single network without users' active intervention in programming the routing
3. Icom repeaters are digital only (although some folks think that is an advantage)
4. User end point radios have improved but they still have a learning curve to leverage all the features by the users
5. FEC on DV is not quite as robust as DMR or P25, but still good quality, all digital voice system have challenges when the signals are more rayleigh than rician in their characteristics , but the additional interleaving in DMR and P25 provide slightly more robust error correction.
6. No data only mode for the VHF/UHF systems that fully leverages the bandwidth for data transfer
7. There are additional DStar designs provided for in the spec that Icom has not shown any interest in bringing to market
8. Single source supply for finished end point radios - Not invented here attitude by competitors - Icom patent for their Gateway design

I am sure there will be other additions. I have enjoyed it and learned a lot about the hobby and hobbyists as well as lots of fun.

Craig KV5E