Uniden SDS100 FCC Approval Time-line

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SteveSimpkin

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Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but here goes.

I'm a more or less happy Unication G5 owner and looking at the SDS-100. Reception-wise, the G5 works almost flawlessly on my Phase I/II LSM where the HomePatrol-II previously failed miserably. I'm still looking for a side by side video comparison of the G5 vs SDS-100 on a LSM network (nobody has posted one it seems).

While I think it's great Uniden is finally doing something about LSM, as a G5 owner, here are 2 things that are almost deal breakers for me about the SDS-100.

1) The form factor of the SDS-100 is huge compared to the G5. I can toss the G5 in my jeans or cargo shorts pocket no problem as the body of the G5 is small and G5's little stubby antenna length are not a problem. The SDS-100's anteanna is comparably gigantic and there's no way it would fit in a pocket and would look weird mounted on a car dash. Question - is there a technical reason the SDS-100 antenna needs to be so long??

2) I hate the font used on the SDS-100's display. This might be weird but it just makes me shrivel my nose to read. Unication has a nice pleasing Arial-type font.

3) Is a keypad really needed? I'm totally fine with needing to plug my G5 into a PC to change setttings and I bet eliminating the keypad would make the form factor nicer.

1. The SDS100 covers a much larger frequency range including down to 25MHz. A short antenna would not be very effective at these lower frequencies.
2. I'm not sure there is much that will be done to change that. You can choose to display less information which uses a larger font.
3. The other 99.999% of customers buying this scanner would scream bloody murder if you took away the front panel programing feature.

They are very different products made for different markets.
 

tp3244

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Thanks, Steve. Quick responses, and mainly based on this SDS-100 seemingly being a followon to the HomePatrol-2 (or is a different product to be targeted at that market?)

1) What sort of traffic on an average person's police/fire/EMS (what I'd consider to be the typical HomePatrol-2 audience) needs reception down to 25MHz? I assumed most precincts were moving to P25-style networks that the G4/G5 pick up without huge antennas. While there are certainly still some old analog systems around that are in the process of being phased out.... this was generally my interpretation of the US police/fire/EMS market.
2) Curious to see what the "other" font looks like. The HomePatrol-2 actually did a decent job here (good font selection and touch screen), although in a weird form factor (not pocketable).
3) The HomePatrol-2 didn't really have full front-panel programming either (other than "enter ZIP code" to get pre-stored settings).. I don't understand the allure to front panel programming and question the 99.999% figure, especially for HomePatrol-2 type consumers.

Maybe I'm weird but I will 100% trade off front panel programming with being able to throw the scanner in my pocket.

-Tim
 

RF23

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Does it help to know that the SDS100 is a followon to the BCD436HP not the Homepatrol-2 (with the touch screen)?
 

SteveSimpkin

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Thanks, Steve. Quick responses, and mainly based on this SDS-100 seemingly being a followon to the HomePatrol-2 (or is a different product to be targeted at that market?)

1) What sort of traffic on an average person's police/fire/EMS (what I'd consider to be the typical HomePatrol-2 audience) needs reception down to 25MHz? I assumed most precincts were moving to P25-style networks that the G4/G5 pick up without huge antennas. While there are certainly still some old analog systems around that are in the process of being phased out.... this was generally my interpretation of the US police/fire/EMS market.
2) Curious to see what the "other" font looks like. The HomePatrol-2 actually did a decent job here (good font selection and touch screen), although in a weird form factor (not pocketable).
3) The HomePatrol-2 didn't really have full front-panel programming either (other than "enter ZIP code" to get pre-stored settings).. I don't understand the allure to front panel programming and question the 99.999% figure, especially for HomePatrol-2 type consumers.

Maybe I'm weird but I will 100% trade off front panel programming with being able to throw the scanner in my pocket.

-Tim

1. CB and amateur radio (ham) are down in this frequency range. Some law enforcement, such as California Highway Patrol (CHP) still use VHF low band.
2. The SDS100 is more in line with the function set of the BCDx36HP models rather than the simpfied HP-2 and HP-3 models. It is capable of displaying a *lot* more information on its screen which requires a smaller font.
3. Again the SDS100 is more in line with the function set of the BCDx36HP models fathers than the simplifed HP-2 and HP-3 models. Front panel programming is expected for this line and is almost a universal feature across all Uniden scanners other than the HP-1/2 series. This model is not a replacement for the HP-1 and HP-2 series.

You are not weird. You have a different set of priorities than what I believe is the target audience for the SDS100.
 

KB7MIB

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1.) Many listeners like to listen to services other than police/fire/EMS. Although the California Highway Patrol is still, and will remain for the foreseeable future, a heavy user of the VHF-Low band, and there's other public safety users too, there's also the military users in the VHF-Low band, and Hams in the 6m band, in addition to CB'ers, and Hams in the 10m band.
There are other users sprinkled throughout the 25-88 MHz region as well that some may be interested in.

John
Peoria, AZ
 
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jonwienke

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Thanks, Steve. Quick responses, and mainly based on this SDS-100 seemingly being a followon to the HomePatrol-2 (or is a different product to be targeted at that market?)

1) What sort of traffic on an average person's police/fire/EMS (what I'd consider to be the typical HomePatrol-2 audience) needs reception down to 25MHz? I assumed most precincts were moving to P25-style networks that the G4/G5 pick up without huge antennas. While there are certainly still some old analog systems around that are in the process of being phased out.... this was generally my interpretation of the US police/fire/EMS market.
2) Curious to see what the "other" font looks like. The HomePatrol-2 actually did a decent job here (good font selection and touch screen), although in a weird form factor (not pocketable).
3) The HomePatrol-2 didn't really have full front-panel programming either (other than "enter ZIP code" to get pre-stored settings).. I don't understand the allure to front panel programming and question the 99.999% figure, especially for HomePatrol-2 type consumers.

Maybe I'm weird but I will 100% trade off front panel programming with being able to throw the scanner in my pocket.

-Tim

1. Antenna size is dictated by frequency range, not by modulation type. A tiny antenna can be efficient for receiving 800MHz frequencies, but is absolute crap for VHF and lower bands. While 800MHz works reasonably well in densely populated urban areas where it is practical to have repeaters every few miles, it is absolutely useless in sparsely populated, mountainous wilderness areas. That's why CHP still uses low band, and is likely to continue to do so into the forseeable future. In somewhat less extreme topography, VHF still works better than 800MHz, and is very commonly used throughout the US. So tiny antennas are only useful in relatively urban settings where 800MHz transmitters are spaced fairly closely together. For many listening situations they are completely useless.

2. The design focus of the HP-2 is the user interface, not the actual receiver. The HP-2 absolutely sucks at receiving simulcast. In head-to-head tests against the 436, the HP-2 got less than 50% of traffic, while the 436 got about 95%.

3. The SDS-100 is the successor to the BCD436HP, not the HomePatrol-2. The target market is very different. The 436 is geared toward the scanner enthusiast who wants to be able to get under the hood and access every setting, while the HP-2 is geared to people who just want to turn it on and hear stuff. Front panel programming is a must for the former crowd, the latter not so much.

4. The Unications are designed to receive a fairly small number of analog channels or talkgroups on a single trunked system, using a receiver that only covers 2 bands. The 436, HP2, and the SDS-100 are all designed to monitor multiple large trunked systems with hundreds of sites and thousands of talkgroups, and have receivers that cover everything from 25-1300MHz except for a few federally mandated gaps. The additional receive bands means the receiver circuitry takes up more space, and the ability to monitor dozens of complex trunked systems requires a user interface with more options than a simple multi-position knob. So there's 2 reasons the keypad on the SDS-100 isn't going away: getting rid of it wouldn't make the SDS-100 much smaller, and the keypad is used to manage which favorite lists and list components are monitored (quick keys), enter frequencies, and other things.
 

tp3244

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jon - thanks for the detailed post. And thanks to others who piped up with other use cases for the SDS-100 that I hadn't considered. Most all of what you said makes sense. Just a couple more comments (I'll go away, I swear).

1) My VHF G5 works great with its stubby little antenna on my "DaneCom" network (Madison, WI) which is a Harris simulcast system with control freqs in the 150ish MHz range... jon seemed to mention that small antennas shouldn't work on VHF so this puzzled me a bit.

2) I can say as a former HP-2 user, on my network (Harris VHF simulcast) the HP-2 was completely useless. My percentage was more like 1% and that 1% was garbled. This totally turned me off to Uniden products quite frankly as I found it to be borderline false advertising that the thing supposedly supported "P25 Phase I and II"

3) Wonder if Uniden will release something intended as a successor to the HP-2, but with good simulcast performance. I might be interested but the G5 works pretty darn well as-is....
 

jonwienke

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1) My VHF G5 works great with its stubby little antenna on my "DaneCom" network (Madison, WI) which is a Harris simulcast system with control freqs in the 150ish MHz range... jon seemed to mention that small antennas shouldn't work on VHF so this puzzled me a bit.

Small VHF antennas will work OK in strong-signal areas. In an urban area where repeaters are spaced closely together, you can get by with a small, inefficient antenna. But an antenna that is physically 1/4-wavelength in size will perform much better in all respects, and allow successful reception in conditions where a smaller antenna will pick up nothing. The real test is to drive out into the boonies where the nearest transmitter is miles away, and see which works best. The full-size antenna will pick up a usable signal from a significantly greater distance than a stubby.

Having a detachable antenna allows you to choose an antenna that best matches the frequency band(s) you want to monitor.

2) I can say as a former HP-2 user, on my network (Harris VHF simulcast) the HP-2 was completely useless. My percentage was more like 1% and that 1% was garbled. This totally turned me off to Uniden products quite frankly as I found it to be borderline false advertising that the thing supposedly supported "P25 Phase I and II"

Not all Phase II is simulcast, and any type of system can be simulcast, even analog FM. The HP-2 does fine on non-simulcast P25-II, but it definitely doesn't handle simulcast very well. Simulcast is more common than it used to be.
 

mancow

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I just talked to Bearcat Warehouse and they said they don't have an inventory counts vs current orders and it could possibly be the next shipment I would have to wait for. At this rate I'll just keep my order in at the other place I went to first I guess.

EDIT: Meh, oh well. I ordered from both and will just sell the extra I guess.
 
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03msc

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Hm.. their website says "IN STOCK" but it seems that it's not actually in stock, but rather on the way to them. A bit misleading..

No, it's all the way misleading. They do have a small disclaimer at the bottom of the page but still false to say "in stock".

"Check's in the mail..." as the saying goes. :D

I'm sure they will be "in stock" as soon as the approval is officially received and Uniden gets them to them.
 

ansky

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Based on what I'm reading here I think some of you need to pump the brakes and take a few deep breaths. You're throwing hundreds of dollars at a product that is not even released yet, may or may not actually be in stock, or even know when it may or may not ship.
 

mancow

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Why, so I can wait longer for no reason other than a slim chance of a delay? If it happens they will just refund me or hold the money until it's available anyway.
 

ansky

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Why, so I can wait longer for no reason other than a slim chance of a delay? If it happens they will just refund me or hold the money until it's available anyway.

What would happen if it was sold out and you weren't one of the first to get one?
 

jonwienke

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That would suck. But there will probably be subsequent shipments from Uniden. I suspect they are going to make more than 100 SDS-100s.
 

mancow

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What would happen if it was sold out and you weren't one of the first to get one?

I'm fully expecting that to be the situation with bearcat warehouse due to all the orders but I'll just have to wait for the next round.
 
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