Unknown Tier3 System L8

[bravo14]

I'm located in Polk County FL and the past hour or so bands been open up and picking up SC/NC. I noticed a T3 L8. I know this isn't Publix since the Orlando & Jax sites doesn't match the lsn/lcn. Here is what I have below

Site 23 453.300 Color Code 0 Unknown LSN/LCN
NL 8 11 13 20 21 25 38
Site 8 CC=2185
Site 11 CC=1
Site 13 CC=2125
Site 20 CC=1
Site 21 CC=2143
Site 25 CC=2365
Site 38 CC=3 or 2241

I did a search and no system is listed on the TRS System ID Query Results

 

[mtindor]

I'm located in Polk County FL and the past hour or so bands been open up and picking up SC/NC. I noticed a T3 L8. I know this isn't Publix since the Orlando & Jax sites doesn't match the lsn/lcn. Here is what I have below

Site 23 453.300 Color Code 0 Unknown LSN/LCN
NL 8 11 13 20 21 25 38
Site 8 CC=2185
Site 11 CC=1
Site 13 CC=2125
Site 20 CC=1
Site 21 CC=2143
Site 25 CC=2365
Site 38 CC=3 or 2241

I did a search and no system is listed on the TRS System ID Query Results


View attachment 202354

View attachment 202353

You listed that you were montoring 453.300. Is that a certainty or a typo? Just wonder because most of the neighbor LSNs seem likely to match up to 460 mhz freqs and 453.300 seems to only come up with city licenses in FL/SC/GA/MS/LA. And I think it's unlikely that any city would have 38+ DMR T3 sites.

Was this during a tropo event? If so, which direction was it favoring, and how much of a tropo event do you think it was? Looking at the spectrum, it doesn't look like a huge tropo event. Wonder if it is MCA updating one of their networks in SE.

When I search FL/SC/GA/LA/MS (assuming I calculated the right frequencies for the neighbors), the only entity that came up with every frequency query (except 453.300) was MCA.

 

[bravo14]

The system is back strong again. I've tried 453.30625 show same info above. I've looked in different states no 453.30625 showing up. I'm on 453.300 and sitting on it see if any other CHID shows up and any talkgroups

 

[bravo14]

I ran the 150 to find the lcn came up as LCN 3 LSN 7,8. Looks like the system is ENC. There was a private call popping up.

 

[bravo14]

More wide this morning than yesterday morning.

 

[bravo14]

Site 22 453.3375 popped up.
453.3375 lcn 268 lsn 133

 

[mtindor]

Site 22 453.3375 popped up.
453.3375 lcn 268 lsn 133

Site 22 453.3375 popped up.
453.3375 lcn 268 lsn 133

What does Site 22 show for neighbors?

 

[mtindor]

And keep in mind that when you copied that site L8-23 the other day, the signal strength (at the time you posted the FMP window) was pretty poor. Not near 20 db SNR. So I am sure there were errors. And I'd be concerned about trying to use a scanner to get the LCN of the control channel. If there is not an actual voice call on the control channel frequency, an LCN can't be discovered. And the scanners do not always do a great job of identifying LCNs. I wouldn't necessarily trust that LCN 3 for 453.000.

You're saying:

LCN 3 453.300

and something is mixed up here: 453.3375 lcn 268 lsn 133

The LSN would be higher than the LCN. DSDPlus is going to show the LSN. So, only you know which was shown by your Uniden or by DSDplus.

m

 

[bravo14]

What does Site 22 show for neighbors?

NL 6 13 26 30 35 36

 

[bravo14]

And keep in mind that when you copied that site L8-23 the other day, the signal strength (at the time you posted the FMP window) was pretty poor. Not near 20 db SNR. So I am sure there were errors. And I'd be concerned about trying to use a scanner to get the LCN of the control channel. If there is not an actual voice call on the control channel frequency, an LCN can't be discovered. And the scanners do not always do a great job of identifying LCNs. I wouldn't necessarily trust that LCN 3 for 453.000.

You're saying:

LCN 3 453.300

and something is mixed up here: 453.3375 lcn 268 lsn 133

The LSN would be higher than the LCN. DSDPlus is going to show the LSN. So, only you know which was shown by your Uniden or by DSDplus.

m

I did a second lcn finder and 3 came up again. I don't think that's correct either. I was looking at missing freq for 532 and 268 couldn't find them when scrolling around in the fmp24

 

[mtindor]

NL 6 13 26 30 35 36

No good without the CC=

So it looks like there are at least 14 sites (and probably at least 38). There is no city/county agency that is going to have that many sites as far as I'm concerned. I'd say to consider some sort of power co, but they typically would not be using 453.300 / 453.3375. Ditto with wide area radio shop setups. But i guess they could if they were including in frequencies from licenses belonging to govt type agencies.

 

[bravo14]

No good without the CC=

So it looks like there are at least 14 sites (and probably at least 38). There is no city/county agency that is going to have that many sites as far as I'm concerned. I'd say to consider some sort of power co, but they typically would not be using 453.300 / 453.3375. Ditto with wide area radio shop setups. But i guess they could if they were including in frequencies from licenses belonging to govt type agencies.

I remember when this system came out it was glitchy as heck. Gilchrist County Public Safety Trunking System, Trenton, Florida The lsn does match them. I have t o look at my laptop and see what it says. I was in that area back in late April and see what RID showed up.

 

[mtindor]

I remember when this system came out it was glitchy as heck. Gilchrist County Public Safety Trunking System, Trenton, Florida The lsn does match them. I have t o look at my laptop and see what it says. I was in that area back in late April and see what RID showed up.

I thought of Gilchrist, but look at all of the sites on the L8 system.

1. Gilchrist was MOT CAPMAX (but reporting 9.x site numbers -- either bad decodes or the system was running in Open mode
2. It was reporting as a (S)mall network
3. It's Network ID was 9

Now you're copying L8, instead of S9. Doesn't mean it isn't Gilchrist, but if it is, then they would have had to get other counties on board with their system to add up to 38 sites. There just isn't going to be 38 sites in any given county.

And back when you were monitoring S9, the neighbors all made sense -- corresponded to sites on the license and none up in the 30s.

Mike

 

[bravo14]

I just looked at laptop and S9 was there and the RID in the pix doesn't match nor the tg's. I think I need to make a new System and Freq for this one see what happens still getting the signal.

 

[mtindor]

I just looked at laptop and S9 was there and the RID in the pix doesn't match nor the tg's. I think I need to make a new System and Freq for this one see what happens still getting the signal.

Agreed. Not going to be Gilchrist unless they completely changed things since Dec 2025 (when I used a remote Airspy in FL to determine details for Gilchrist). It was only six sites then, and there were no LSNs in the 2000s. Freqs were only 453/460 freqs.

In the case of what you are monitoring now, it looks like there are 453 freqs and 461+ mhz freqs ,whicch is odd.

Do you have the CC= LSN lines for site 22?

 

[bravo14]

Agreed. Not going to be Gilchrist unless they completely changed things since Dec 2025 (when I used a remote Airspy in FL to determine details for Gilchrist). It was only six sites then, and there were no LSNs in the 2000s. Freqs were only 453/460 freqs.

In the case of what you are monitoring now, it looks like there are 453 freqs and 461+ mhz freqs ,whicch is odd.

Do you have the CC= LSN lines for site 22?

I think it's 537 for 22 and 531 for 21

 

[mtindor]

I think it's 537 for 22 and 531 for 21

You need to get screenshots of that stuff the next time. While monitoring the system, it's as easy as going to CTRL -> Discard Current System Info and then letting it repopulate the system details at the bottom left and show the neighbors and CC= lines.

 

[bravo14]

Site 22
NL 6 CC=2179
NL 13 CC=2125
NL 26 CC=1 ??
NL 30 CC=2195
NL 35 CC=1 ??
NL 36 CC=2309

Site 23
NL 8 CC=2185
NL 11 CC=1 ??
NL 13 CC=2125
NL 20 CC=1 ??
NL 21 CC=2143
NL 25 CC=2365
NL 38 CC=3 & CC=2241 Not sure why showing 2 different ones?

 

[bravo14]

You need to get screenshots of that stuff the next time. While monitoring the system, it's as easy as going to CTRL -> Discard Current System Info and then letting it repopulate the system details at the bottom left and show the neighbors and CC= lines.

Ok I just did that see what happens. I went back into the event files and looked at the NL

 

[bravo14]

Taking a guess on the Control Channel LSN/LCN

Site 22
NL 6 CC=2179/1089 463.6
NL 13 CC=2125/1062 463.2625
NL 26 CC=1 ??
NL 30 CC=2195/1097 463.7
NL 35 CC=1 ??
NL 36 CC=2309/1154 464.4125

Site 23
NL 8 CC=2185/1092 463.6375
NL 11 CC=1 ??
NL 13 CC=2125/1062 463.625
NL 20 CC=1 ??
NL 21 CC=2143/1071 463.575
NL 25 CC=2365/1182 464.7625
NL 38 CC=2241/1120 463.9875