Updated Washington Center Information

[Larry51]

I’m trying to update my list of ZDC frequencies. I recently purchased the most recent copy of the FAA’s Chart Supplement – Northeast USA which has a page that lists the center frequencies, including ZDC. (see attached link). It differs from what I’m seeing on Radio Reference, which I think was last updated in 2017, and also what is displayed on Wikipedia.

For example, Radio Reference lists sites at Benson, Dover and Hopewell that aren’t listed in the FAA pub. The RR listing for Cape Charles is completely different. Both RR and Wiki are much more detailed, including breakdowns of the areas and sectors.

Can it be the FAA’s pub doesn’t list all the frequencies or have some sites been eliminated? Is there an FAA site that has the complete and up-to-date details for the different ATC centers? Is the RR page still the most accurate?

 

[AirScan]

Can it be the FAA’s pub doesn’t list all the frequencies or have some sites been eliminated?

The FAA data published in the Facilities Directory has been inaccurate for years. Wrong frequencies listed or missing frequencies and RCAG sites. I have not idea why they can't be bothered to keep it updated ? The Radio Reference Database is the most accurate I'm aware of. In some cases the name used might be different but refer to the same location.

Is there an FAA site that has the complete and up-to-date details for the different ATC centers?

I've never been able to find one. The FAA do publish what they call the ARTCC Facilities File (AFF) which provides a bit more detail but it's the same incomplete data used in the Facilities Directory. You can download it from here.

28 Day NASR Subscription - Effective December 31, 2020

www.faa.gov

 

[Larry51]

The FAA data published in the Facilities Directory has been inaccurate for years. Wrong frequencies listed or missing frequencies and RCAG sites. I have not idea why they can't be bothered to keep it updated ? The Radio Reference Database is the most accurate I'm aware of. In some cases the name used might be different but refer to the same location.



I've never been able to find one. The FAA do publish what they call the ARTCC Facilities File (AFF) which provides a bit more detail but it's the same incomplete data used in the Facilities Directory. You can download it from here.

28 Day NASR Subscription - Effective December 31, 2020

www.faa.gov

Thanks for the quick reply and for the link to the FAA text files. It took me a while to figure out the format, but once I did I found a lot of good information.

Meanwhile, I'm finding that the sites left out of the Facilities Directory are indeed active. I parked my scanner on some of the frequencies and eventually found quite a bit of traffic from "Brook," "Yorktown," and "Dixon," none of which are not listed in the pub.

Thanks again for the help.

Larry

 

[AirScan]

If it helps at all here are my own notes covering the ZDC high altitude sectors. Generally covering 24000 feet and above. Should be up to date but if you hear anything different please let me know so I can update it. Given the lower traffic volume recently many sectors are often combined.

 

[Larry51]

If it helps at all here are my own notes covering the ZDC high altitude sectors. Generally covering 24000 feet and above. Should be up to date but if you hear anything different please let me know so I can update it. Given the lower traffic volume recently many sectors are often combined.

Nice map! Thanks for sharing. There's some Giantkiller freqs there as well. That's about 20 miles from me, so I listening in on them as well.

 

[AirScan]

There's some Giantkiller freqs there as well. That's about 20 miles from me, so I listening in on them as well.

Just out of curiosity are you close enough to hear the the controller on the VHF Giant Killer frequencies 125.375 or 118.125 ? Of course most of the aircraft will be on UHF.

 

[dlwtrunked]

I’m trying to update my list of ZDC frequencies. I recently purchased the most recent copy of the FAA’s Chart Supplement – Northeast USA which has a page that lists the center frequencies, including ZDC. (see attached link). It differs from what I’m seeing on Radio Reference, which I think was last updated in 2017, and also what is displayed on Wikipedia.

For example, Radio Reference lists sites at Benson, Dover and Hopewell that aren’t listed in the FAA pub. The RR listing for Cape Charles is completely different. Both RR and Wiki are much more detailed, including breakdowns of the areas and sectors.

Can it be the FAA’s pub doesn’t list all the frequencies or have some sites been eliminated? Is there an FAA site that has the complete and up-to-date details for the different ATC centers? Is the RR page still the most accurate?

I hope you are aware that the Supplements in pdf format are freely available via the web from the FAA site.

Digital - Chart Supplement (d-CS)

www.faa.gov

I used to buy the printed ones but have not done that in years and instead download the newest ones ever few months.
Information to draw the sector boundaries is also at the FCC site but that requires software and work.

I have found the Supplement, though not perfect, to be my better source with fewer errors and more up to date than RR. Also note, some RCAG are shut down and I doubt those get purged from RR. I have noted the Supplement tracking those changes.
I have been to Benson and indeed it still has Center antennas on a tower next to the CARSR radar. I have been to other listed RCAG sites which still had antennas but found there transmissions originating from other location. The same VHF frequency that RR lists for Benson is listed in the FAA Chart Supplement as being in Rocky Mount. I may check that out sometime when I want a long drive. A good question is where did the Benson listing come from if not from an earlier FAA Chart Supplement (formerly called the Air Facilities Directory).

 

[AirScan]

A good question is where did the Benson listing come from if not from an earlier FAA Chart Supplement (formerly called the Air Facilities Directory).

The RCAG site for 132.225 is listed as "Benson, NC (QRL)" in the Washington Center Standard Operating Procedures Manual. I'm guessing that's where it came from ? These SOPs are the most accurate source but are not easy to get (usually takes an FOIA request to the FAA to get a copy). However even then they are not always 100% accurate either. It would be interesting to see if it really is transmitting from Benson or Rocky Mount, or both ? The sites are located about 40 miles apart.

I have found the Supplement, though not perfect, to be my better source with fewer errors and more up to date than RR. Also note, some RCAG are shut down and I doubt those get purged from RR. I have noted the Supplement tracking those changes.

What is there in the Washington Center RR database you see that is incorrect or missing ? Some Centers seem better than others in updating their information that gets published in the FAA Supplement, but Washington not so much. I guess the same applies to the RR database as it seems to be updated on a volunteer basis ? Now you got me curious, I'll take a closer look and compare the various databases and see what discrepancies there between them.

 

[dlwtrunked]

Thanks for the quick reply and for the link to the FAA text files. It took me a while to figure out the format, but once I did I found a lot of good information.

Meanwhile, I'm finding that the sites left out of the Facilities Directory are indeed active. I parked my scanner on some of the frequencies and eventually found quite a bit of traffic from "Brook," "Yorktown," and "Dixon," none of which are not listed in the pub.

Thanks again for the help.

Larry

Some frequencies are listed in the NASR database as "Not to be published". I think rather than for security reason, it is because these are in use only as needed and only monitored then. Not sure if that is the reason for the above.

 

[dlwtrunked]

The RCAG site for 132.225 is listed as "Benson, NC (QRL)" in the Washington Center Standard Operating Procedures Manual. I'm guessing that's where it came from ? These SOPs are the most accurate source but are not easy to get (usually takes an FOIA request to the FAA to get a copy). However even then they are not always 100% accurate either. It would be interesting to see if it really is transmitting from Benson or Rocky Mount, or both ? The sites are located about 40 miles apart.



What is there in the Washington Center RR database you see that is incorrect or missing ? Some Centers seem better than others in updating their information that gets published in the FAA Supplement, but Washington not so much. I guess the same applies to the RR database as it seems to be updated on a volunteer basis ? Now you got me curious, I'll take a closer look and compare the various databases and see what discrepancies there between them.

My remark was not about Washington Center specifically as I travel a lot visiting radar sites (a hobby reason not work) and was addressing ones throughout the easter US. In the case of Washington, I found the frequencies listed as to be coming from the Leesburg (Washington Center) facility itself. And for that one RR is right and the Supplement is wrong--the Supplement Falls Church listed frequencies that I saw were coming from non-listed Leesburg. I certainly strongly agree some centers are better at keeping theirs up-to-date. For a while, Washington did not include their UHF frequencies (likely by accident) but have put them back. Make sure you look at the NASR database also if you can deal with the structure.

I prefer to visit locations myself to determine activity. I have been up to Linden, Buena Vista, Bucks Elbow, and others as far as Washington goes and monitored those while there looking for frequencies with a spectrum analyzer.

 

[AirScan]

After taking a quick glance here are some of the discrepancies between the various databases regarding Washington Center. (I just looked at the VHF frequencies)

AFF = NASR ARTCC Facilities File (AFF) - Airport Facilities Directory
RRD = Radio Reference Database
SOP = Standard Operating Procedures (2016)

Active frequencies missing from the AFF that are in the RRD and/or SOP.
- 118.025, 118.475, 120.975, 121.025, 121.375, 121.875, 121.925, 132.950, 133.275, 134.025, 134.500, 135.275

Inactive/old frequencies still listed in the AFF that are not in the SOP.
- 124.775, 127.025, 128.525, 132.775, 134.625

Some RCAG locations missing from the AFF that are in the RRD and SOP
- Baltimore MD, Benson NC, Flat Rock VA, Hopewell VA, Richmond VA

There are multiple errors in the AFF data where the frequency type is labeled incorrectly. ie: LOW where it should be HIGH etc.

Some other discrepancies, notes, and questions.
- The RRD lists 127.275 at the Kenting RCAG. This frequency has been changed to 132.050. The AFF/SOP lists the RCAG name as Smyrna.
- The SOP lists 2 "workload" frequencies 134.025 and 135.275. 135.275 is not listed in the RRD/AFF. I've heard 134.025 used as a backup but never 135.275. Anyone ever hear it in use ?
- 135.525 is listed in the RRD as a "Guard Dog" frequency. 135.525 is not listed in the SOP (but might officially be a Potomac frequency ?). Anyone ever hear it in use ? What is a "Guard Dog" frequency ?
- 120.850 and 135.750 are both listed in the AFF and SOP but not in the RRD. Although both are not really "actual" ARTCC frequencies per ce.
- 134.625 and the Roanoke RCAG are not listed in the SOP. This frequency has been changed to 127.925 and according the SOP is located at the Buena Vista RCAG now. Is the Roanoke RCAG really not used anymore ?
- RCAGs Dover NC in the RRD and New Bern NC in the AFF both indicate the same location (35 13 54.580N 077 22 58.850W) but no RCAG can be found in the vicinity on Google Earth. (The only ZDC RCAG I could not find). Anyone know the correct location ?
- A new frequency 135.550 has been noted in use in Sector 34/Norfolk High as a backup, this frequency is not listed in the RRD/AFF/SOP.

There are probably more, but you get the idea. Any further updates always appreciated from those with more current info.

 

[BM82557]

" - 135.525 is listed in the RRD as a "Guard Dog" (whatever that means?) frequency. 135.525 is not listed in the SOP (but might officially be a Potomac frequency ?). Anyone ever hear it in use ? "


It is in use. It and UHF 350.25 are TRACON not ZDC. Guard Dog is the combat air patrol that covers DC and Camp David.

 

[AirScan]

It is in use. It and UHF 350.25 are TRACON not ZDC. Guard Dog is the combat air patrol that covers DC and Camp David.

Thanks for that. I see now there is even a LiveATC feed covering it. I should have looked there first.

 

[dlwtrunked]

After taking a quick glance here are some of the discrepancies between the various databases regarding Washington Center. (I just looked at the VHF frequencies)

AFF = NASR ARTCC Facilities File (AFF) - Airport Facilities Directory
RRD = Radio Reference Database
SOP = Standard Operating Procedures (2016)

Active frequencies missing from the AFF that are in the RRD and/or SOP.
- 118.025, 118.475, 120.975, 121.025, 121.375, 121.875, 121.925, 132.950, 133.275, 134.025, 134.500, 135.275

Inactive/old frequencies still listed in the AFF that are not in the SOP.
- 124.775, 127.025, 128.525, 132.775, 134.625

Some RCAG locations missing from the AFF that are in the RRD and SOP
- Baltimore MD, Benson NC, Flat Rock VA, Hopewell VA, Richmond VA

There are multiple errors in the AFF data where the frequency type is labeled incorrectly. ie: LOW where it should be HIGH etc.

Some other discrepancies, notes, and questions.
- The RRD lists 127.275 at the Kenting RCAG. This frequency has been changed to 132.050. The AFF/SOP lists the RCAG name as Smyrna.
- The SOP lists 2 "workload" frequencies 134.025 and 135.275. 135.275 is not listed in the RRD/AFF. I've heard 134.025 used as a backup but never 135.275. Anyone ever hear it in use ?
- 135.525 is listed in the RRD as a "Guard Dog" frequency. 135.525 is not listed in the SOP (but might officially be a Potomac frequency ?). Anyone ever hear it in use ? What is a "Guard Dog" frequency ?
- 120.850 and 135.750 are both listed in the AFF and SOP but not in the RRD. Although both are not really "actual" ARTCC frequencies per ce.
- 134.625 and the Roanoke RCAG are not listed in the SOP. This frequency has been changed to 127.925 and according the SOP is located at the Buena Vista RCAG now. Is the Roanoke RCAG really not used anymore ?
- RCAGs Dover NC in the RRD and New Bern NC in the AFF both indicate the same location (35 13 54.580N 077 22 58.850W) but no RCAG can be found in the vicinity on Google Earth. (The only ZDC RCAG I could not find). Anyone know the correct location ?
- A new frequency 135.550 has been noted in use in Sector 34/Norfolk High as a backup, this frequency is not listed in the RRD/AFF/SOP.

There are probably more, but you get the idea. Any further updates always appreciated from those with more current info.

"Guard Dog" frequencies are used for combat air patrols to coordinate, when needed, with the FAA. But most of the combat air patrol activity occurs on other military frequencies. I expect you know that. Guard Dog was last used during the inaugaration, but there was a little activity there-most activity was on NORAD (to "Huntress" at Rome NY) 139.7, 228.9, and 260.9; tanker boom frequency 247.05, and DC ANG 113th Wg ("Senate") at Andrews on 234.8. One of the tankers had an issue with gauges and had to RTB causing some changing of their plans but increasing the radio traffic.

Regarding 35 13 54.580N 077 22 58.850W, it looks like there is something obscured across the street. I was in that general area a couple weeks ago-I wish I had known to take a look--may be this week if I want to get out of the house.

 

[AirScan]

"Guard Dog" frequencies are used for combat air patrols to coordinate, when needed, with the FAA. But most of the combat air patrol activity occurs on other military frequencies. I expect you know that.

Thanks, appreciate the info. I have monitored a few CAP missions, although not in the DC area, and being relatively new to mil air monitoring any info. is helpful.

Regarding 35 13 54.580N 077 22 58.850W, it looks like there is something obscured across the street.

I found it, looks like it's 1.9 miles south of where the FAA position is, you can see it at 35 12.25N 77 22.92W.

On the subject of updated ZDC information they are changing the airspace a bit in that area, adding routes, a new ultra high sector, and tweaking some low sector boundaries.

"Once the optimization project is fully implemented, it will benefit business aviation operators. For example, the creation of a ZDC Ultra-high Sector 30 over Washington, DC will improve airspace efficiency. Ernie Stellings, NBAA Air Traffic Services senior manager, explained that this new ultra-high sector will eliminate some of the delays and excessive routing operators currently experience up and down the Atlantic coast. This change is slated for April 22, 2021."

Updated Preferred IFR Routes Available for NEC ACR Optimization Project | NBAA - National Business Aviation Association

The FAA's Northeast Corridor Atlantic Coast Routes (NEC ACR) optimization project enables greater use of offshore route options, reduces offshore vectoring and better segregates overflight traffic.

tinyurl.com

Attached is the update from the FAA. It shows the new sector boundaries (pages 14-15) but does not list any new or updated frequencies.

 

[dlwtrunked]

...
I found it, looks like it's 1.9 miles south of where the FAA position is, you can see it at 35 12.25N 77 22.92W.
...

Thanks--you save me a long drive to settle curiousity. Also, if you sent me a private message there is some information I want to share for your listing comparisons.

 

[dlwtrunked]

Thanks--you save me a long drive to settle curiousity. Also, if you sent me a private message there is some information I want to share for your listing comparisons.

Here is a Streetview of the site you found. Google Maps

 

[AirScan]

Here is a Streetview of the site you found. Google Maps

That looks like an ARTCC RCAG site to me. Hard to tell for sure but it looks like there are 14 separate antennas between the 3 towers. For the techs out there, do they use 2 antennas for each frequency, one to transmit and one to receive ? The FAA list 7 frequencies from that site so the 14 would makes sense if that's how they work ?

 

[Larry51]

Just out of curiosity are you close enough to hear the the controller on the VHF Giant Killer frequencies 125.375 or 118.125 ? Of course most of the aircraft will be on UHF.

Of the two, I've monitored traffic on 118.125 only. I sometimes can hear the controller if I turn the squelch all the way down, and then it's barely discernable. Unfortunately my antennas are now all indoors - on the scanners. No longer on the roof or in the attic.

Also, I checked out the link to the FAA "ARTCC Facilities text files that you sent me and it does contain additional info that the pub doesn't have. So, thank you for that as well.

 

[dlwtrunked]

Concerning antennas at RCAG, there are some unusual ones--like the intentional bent mast to have the antenna "look down" at Linden and the circular polarized ones at Buena Vista.