USA Made GPS Disciplined Oscillator

[tlemke940]

I am looking for a USA Made GPS Disciplined Oscillator. So far I have not been able to find one less than $800USD. I am even open to European made also. I just want to try and get away form the china made units. My only requirements are +12vdc and has 10mhz (1ppm is nice but not needed). Anyone have any ideas? I am looking for this to be on a few Kenwood radios so I don't need anything fancy just want to try and get away from the china made stuff.

 

[mmckenna]

EndRun products are built in the USA, at least the ones we have were.

They are often on E-bay. Finding one with the 10MHz option might take some work.

 

[tweiss3]

LeoBodnar is what I use on my IC-9700. After it gets GPS locked, it has 1PPM output from 1Hz to 1.1GHz (user set). They are out of the UK, but if you have time, simple international mail is reasonably priced, and you will be way under $800

 

[dlwtrunked]

I am looking for a USA Made GPS Disciplined Oscillator. So far I have not been able to find one less than $800USD. I am even open to European made also. I just want to try and get away form the china made units. My only requirements are +12vdc and has 10mhz (1ppm is nice but not needed). Anyone have any ideas? I am looking for this to be on a few Kenwood radios so I don't need anything fancy just want to try and get away from the china made stuff.

European Bodnar. You will not find anything cheaper and they are good. It would be really silly/stupid to buy elsewhere as these are well beyond good enough and almost a standard for your use.
I use 6 on everything from spectrum analyzers (Signal Hound) to SDRs. Cost 1/4 the prices you quoted for U.S. stuff.

GPSDO Precision Frequency Reference : Leo Bodnar Electronics

Leo Bodnar Electronics : GPSDO Precision Frequency Reference - Loadcell Amplifiers Cables Universal USB Interfaces Racing Simulator Products Buttons, Encoders, Switches SimSteering Force Feedback Enclosures Potentiometers, Sensors GPSDO Precision Frequency Reference NTP server GPS Antennas Fast...

leobodnar.com

 

[prcguy]

There used to be lots of Ball Aerospace GPSDO modules floating around as project units. You just put them in a box with power supply, connect GPS antenna and off they go. I used one for many years then bought a couple of Chinese units around $80 and a Leo Bodnar for portable use. They all work fine but the Leo Bodnar is tiny and much more useful.

 

[merlin]

I have both a Trimble and a no name, cheapie. both work fine. The cheapie though claims NMEA on an rs232 port, but it isn't NMEA compliant.
The 10MH z on both are less than 1 Hz so either is usable for GPSDO. A sig gen I use this on has +/- 1Hz resolution, so good to go there.
I also have a freq counter good to 1 Hz with GPSDO.

GPSDO PLUS GPS Disciplined Oscillator 10MHz 1PPS GPS Clock for Audio Decoder | eBay

ALM: Status indicator. - 4-channel 10MHz outputs, including 2-channel square waves and 2-channel sine waves. - High-end audio decoders, digital turntables and other audio devices with external 10MHz clock input.

www.ebay.com

 

[dlwtrunked]

I have both a Trimble and a no name, cheapie. both work fine. The cheapie though claims NMEA on an rs232 port, but it isn't NMEA compliant.
The 10MH z on both are less than 1 Hz so either is usable for GPSDO. A sig gen I use this on has +/- 1Hz resolution, so good to go there.
I also have a freq counter good to 1 Hz with GPSDO.

GPSDO PLUS GPS Disciplined Oscillator 10MHz 1PPS GPS Clock for Audio Decoder | eBay

ALM: Status indicator. - 4-channel 10MHz outputs, including 2-channel square waves and 2-channel sine waves. - High-end audio decoders, digital turntables and other audio devices with external 10MHz clock input.

www.ebay.com

You have came clase to an important point. Many HF receivers do not have 1 Hz resolution. Adding a GPSDO to one that allows such does not guarantee frequency accuracy like 1 Hz as the internal hardware does not allow that resolution. The GPSDO dsicplines the master clock but the hardware after that is the issue. (That is true of many SDRs , even "good ones", so some thinking they are reading precise frequencies are in error. ) It does however get one the best calibration possible and outstanding stability.

 

[AM909]

What constitutes "USA made"? I.e., is it final assembly, testing, support, housing, PC board, etc.? Discrete components, even modules, are likely not made in the US because there are none, right?

How many devices include (Swiss-based, made in who knows?) u-blox GPS modules or whatever components they are based on?

 

[tlemke940]

thank you for the information guys i have looked into the Leo Bodnar and i see those require gps to work correctly ( i know kinda the point of a GPS clock) looking more for a unit that if GPS drops out { Ice/snow takes out antenna } it can handle keeping time for a few months tell we can get to the site. will probably need to stick with the china made units that we have been running even tho we would like to get away from china made products.

 

[tlemke940]

What constitutes "USA made"? I.e., is it final assembly, testing, support, housing, PC board, etc.? Discrete components, even modules, are likely not made in the US because there are none, right?

How many devices include (Swiss-based, made in who knows?) u-blox GPS modules or whatever components they are based on?

good question mostly i am just wanting to get away from china made products if i can.

 

[tweiss3]

thank you for the information guys i have looked into the Leo Bodnar and i see those require gps to work correctly ( i know kinda the point of a GPS clock) looking more for a unit that if GPS drops out { Ice/snow takes out antenna } it can handle keeping time for a few months tell we can get to the site. will probably need to stick with the china made units that we have been running even tho we would like to get away from china made products.

From LeoBodnar

Operation requires presence of GPS signal, however temporary satellite signal loss is handled seamlessly with no frequency or phase jumps. Active or passive antennas are supported. An active antenna with 5 metre cable is provided but can be substituted by other common types. GPS acquisition time after power-up is around 30 seconds. If GPS signal is lost, digital PLL will maintains best estimated output frequency based on historical data. On reacquisition of GPS lock, output is seamlessly brought back in sync with GPS reference. Entry and exit of this frequency hold is glitchless

I have no idea if it will hold for "months", but may be sufficient depending on how much historical data is saved.

 

[dlwtrunked]

thank you for the information guys i have looked into the Leo Bodnar and i see those require gps to work correctly ( i know kinda the point of a GPS clock) looking more for a unit that if GPS drops out { Ice/snow takes out antenna } it can handle keeping time for a few months tell we can get to the site. will probably need to stick with the china made units that we have been running even tho we would like to get away from china made products.

A Bodnars is as good as or better than any of the Chinese. by the way, some of the Chinese units have been known to have some offset error. Google GPS disciplined oscillators and you will find more about that and comparisons. (I have several models from both sources.) It is 10 MHz accuracy rather than time. If you want to do better than the Chinese or Bodnar in what you seem to be thinking, you will need a very expensive GPSDO Rubidium reference. By the way, I have used Bodnars for years and never had rain or snow above the antenna stop them. You are stating nearly non-extent conditions requiring an expensive solution. If snow takes out them for as long as you are giving the impression, your sites power is also going to be down. Note also that you can use your own GPS antenna or put the antenna under a radome to help snow/ace off of it (something I have found not necessary) but if you are as concerned as you seem about that, get a Bodnar and do that.

 

[kayn1n32008]

I am looking for a USA Made GPS Disciplined Oscillator.

thank you for the information guys i have looked into the Leo Bodnar and i see those require gps to work correctly ( i know kinda the point of a GPS clock) looking more for a unit that if GPS drops out { Ice/snow takes out antenna } it can handle keeping time for a few months tell we can get to the site.

You want a GPSDO, that doesn't need GPS? Lol.

You are looking for a GPSDO with a rubidium clock to maintain accuracy if you lose GPS.

A GPS timing antenna shouldn't be 'lost'. They are small, and can be easily protected. They don't need a totally clear sky view, as they are normally mounted fairly close to the ground, I see them quite often mounted directly to comms shelters, and ice bridges. If you get a multi constellation receiver, seeing 20+ satellites should be easy, even with a low, protected mounting location.

I think you are way over thinking the chances of having a timing antenna being destroyed. Especially if you mount it in a way that it's protected from falling ice and snow.

Even the small active patch antennas work, and don't even have to be looking straight up. I've had handheld GPS receivers easily get fixed inside woodframed homes with vinyl siding and asphalt shingle roof.

 

[dlwtrunked]

...

Even the small active patch antennas work, and don't even have to be looking straight up. I've had handheld GPS receivers easily get fixed inside woodframed homes with vinyl siding and asphalt shingle roof.

Indeed true. ( I use both outside and indoor indoor antenna like that and snow/ice has never stopped either.)

 

[Project25_MASTR]

Leo Bodnar is what I use for field service and aligning Quantar/GTR8000/MTR3000 and other items that need a 10 MHz reference (though you need to get the voltage set right).

My lab GPSDO's are Spectracom's I bought at a hamfest for $100 each.

That being said, IMO it's time to start suggesting the manufacturers adopt PTP on the next generation infrastructure.

 

[tlemke940]

OK as an update we did not end up going with the leo bodnar at this time but we are in contact with them. we did not go with them at this time due to on these units they are using a TCXO and we are looking for a unit that is running an OCXO at minimum. it dose sound like they do have an interesting product in the works that may meet our needs but is not out yet. a few months is worst case most likely it will be only a few days to a few weeks the GPS could be out. and the ice and snow taking out a GPS is only one example. there are lots of reasons to have a loss of GPS signal. including mother natures wrath, to furry 4 legged creatures with teeth, to great white apes doing bad things. we also are aware of the problems with the older china units and do test for that when we do use them. by what we have found is the newer ones are not too bad. yes we do take precautions to protect the antenna but as the saying goes "stuff happens". and GPS inside metal sites don't work great some do work out others not so much.

 

[dlwtrunked]

OK as an update we did not end up going with the leo bodnar at this time but we are in contact with them. we did not go with them at this time due to on these units they are using a TCXO and we are looking for a unit that is running an OCXO at minimum. it dose sound like they do have an interesting product in the works that may meet our needs but is not out yet. a few months is worst case most likely it will be only a few days to a few weeks the GPS could be out. and the ice and snow taking out a GPS is only one example. there are lots of reasons to have a loss of GPS signal. including mother natures wrath, to furry 4 legged creatures with teeth, to great white apes doing bad things. we also are aware of the problems with the older china units and do test for that when we do use them. by what we have found is the newer ones are not too bad. yes we do take precautions to protect the antenna but as the saying goes "stuff happens". and GPS inside metal sites don't work great some do work out others not so much.

What model did you buy? Like I said, some of the Chinese models claims are outright lies. (I have lots of Chinese stuff that is not.) If you do things right, a lot of the things you say might happen will not and you are likely paying a lot for never.

 

[tlemke940]

for this project we are just going to stick with the china made unit with the OCXO from the dealer we have gotten good units from before. if and when leo bodnar dose come out with one with an OCXO we will be looking into that one. and a lot of the worst case things that we are looking at is more for peace of mind as one of the locations is a remote site that is snow bound 5 months out of the year. and from experience stuff can happen even with good installs and equipment. like we had a GOOD GPS antenna one of those ones that look kinda like a pointy egg. it was not far from the beach and the weather got to the antenna after 10 years of service. as some of these kinds of devices tend to stay in service for up to 30 years in some cases we are just trying to think proactively and see whats out there and trying not to spend multi thousands of dollars for something that is not really needed but better to have. like on GMRS and ham repeaters not really needed but nice to have.

 

[dlwtrunked]

for this project we are just going to stick with the china made unit with the OCXO from the dealer we have gotten good units from before. if and when leo bodnar dose come out with one with an OCXO we will be looking into that one. and a lot of the worst case things that we are looking at is more for peace of mind as one of the locations is a remote site that is snow bound 5 months out of the year. and from experience stuff can happen even with good installs and equipment. like we had a GOOD GPS antenna one of those ones that look kinda like a pointy egg. it was not far from the beach and the weather got to the antenna after 10 years of service. as some of these kinds of devices tend to stay in service for up to 30 years in some cases we are just trying to think proactively and see whats out there and trying not to spend multi thousands of dollars for something that is not really needed but better to have. like on GMRS and ham repeaters not really needed but nice to have.

Which Chinese unit?

 

[kayn1n32008]

My lab GPSDO's are Spectracom's I bought at a hamfest for $100 each.

We have a Spectracom GPSDO and distribution amp at our club site. All our repeaters, except D-Star, 1.25m and 6m are disciplined.