Utah switching to P25 phase II in 3 to 4 months.

[enosjones]

Many Utah law enforcement agencies are choosing to encrypt their radio channels

Utah is almost done transitioning to a new public safety radio system. But with the new system comes a decision by many law enforcement agencies to encrypt their radio feeds.

ksltv.com

 

[gldavis]

"Situational Awareness"/ Knowing what is happening in your neighborhood/community, is not a "Right". It is a privilege. One that is allowed (or not) by those that will tell you they have your best interests in mind. You will be told what you need to know, only when they feel it is appropriate.

(and yes, there are many citizens who do agree "It's none of my business".

)

 

[Spadinator]

Well at least I can monitor Davis County.....sad my home county of Weber is encrypted but oh well.

 

[gldavis]

There will be changes. There is still a lot to hear.

 

[xcr2000]

"Situational Awareness"/ Knowing what is happening in your neighborhood/community, is not a "Right". It is a privilege. One that is allowed (or not) by those that will tell you they have your best interests in mind. You will be told what you need to know, only when they feel it is appropriate.

(and yes, there are many citizens who do agree "It's none of my business".

)

Its simply an exercise of control; mechanisms of power rule, or rue, the day.

 

[kenzie]

So with Salt Lake City going p25 encrypted will Uniden come out with a new scanner that will work? Is West Jordan PD going to encrypt their channels too?

 

[PMJ2kx]

So with Salt Lake City going p25 encrypted will Uniden come out with a new scanner that will work? Is West Jordan PD going to encrypt their channels too?

No, Uniden (nor any other manufacturer) will ever* make a scanner or radio capable of monitoring encrypted communications if you're not the intended recipient of said comms. That defeats the purpose of using encryption.

And Salt Lake County agencies won't start going live until 12/2 so you'll have to wait and see. There's lots of speculation here as to what will and won't, but the only official confirmation available is that Salt Lake City PD will go encrypted.

* In our lifetime

 

[k27]

I will be contacting my local rep and see is there a petition we can start to get this issue in the hands of voters. I feel it is a public right to listen, our tax dollars pay for the towers. I agree Encrypt tac(SWAT) channels and pertinent identifiable information is already sent to officers MDC, it doesn't have to heard over the air... Police just want control Fire has no issue with operating in real time doing CPR without need to broadcast patient info, police can do the same its not that hard.

 

[K8AI]

"Situational Awareness"/ Knowing what is happening in your neighborhood/community, is not a "Right". It is a privilege. One that is allowed (or not) by those that will tell you they have your best interests in mind. You will be told what you need to know, only when they feel it is appropriate.

(and yes, there are many citizens who do agree "It's none of my business".

)

For many decades (since the 1930s), citizens have been able to monitor public safety radio traffic so the precedent has been set.

 

[gmclam]

For many decades (since the 1930s), citizens have been able to monitor public safety radio traffic so the precedent has been set.

The problem now is all the web apps, whether text or streaming, that have made it too easy for anyone to monitor. People show up at incident scenes and cause interference. The rule is: what we hear is for our ears and not to be repeated. That's been broken. The alarm bells go off for officials when someone is arrested and they have a scanner app running on their phone.

The move to digital technology has made things possible that previously were not. I can't imagine building a state-wide analog-based system. Mountains, microwave links and dead spots come to mind. With digital everything is data. Connections from one region to another can be via traditional, telco services or even the Internet. Not sure of the need, but it does make it possible for communication to be monitored/recorded at a "central" location. Adding encryption is just adding a software layer (which only has a one-time up-front cost).

While the Internet has brought lots of good, it is also being used in negative ways. ID theft comes to mind. Having PII (personal identifying information) just "out there", is not really a good idea. It might seem easy to switch to an encrypted channel when that type of thing needs to be sent, but it isn't. I've noticed over the past decade or so that when a major incident happens, it often takes over the main (dispatch) channel and the normal radio traffic is moved.

This move of everyone to this new state-wide digital system has been in the works for years. Those who are truly concerned about ability to monitor it should have been vocal (to officials, elected or otherwise) years ago. Now you have to play catch up.

 

[k27]

The problem now is all the web apps, whether text or streaming, that have made it too easy for anyone to monitor. People show up at incident scenes and cause interference. The rule is: what we hear is for our ears and not to be repeated. That's been broken. The alarm bells go off for officials when someone is arrested and they have a scanner app running on their phone.

The move to digital technology has made things possible that previously were not. I can't imagine building a state-wide analog-based system. Mountains, microwave links and dead spots come to mind. With digital everything is data. Connections from one region to another can be via traditional, telco services or even the Internet. Not sure of the need, but it does make it possible for communication to be monitored/recorded at a "central" location. Adding encryption is just adding a software layer (which only has a one-time up-front cost).

While the Internet has brought lots of good, it is also being used in negative ways. ID theft comes to mind. Having PII (personal identifying information) just "out there", is not really a good idea. It might seem easy to switch to an encrypted channel when that type of thing needs to be sent, but it isn't. I've noticed over the past decade or so that when a major incident happens, it often takes over the main (dispatch) channel and the normal radio traffic is moved.

This move of everyone to this new state-wide digital system has been in the works for years. Those who are truly concerned about ability to monitor it should have been vocal (to officials, elected or otherwise) years ago. Now you have to play catch up.

“PII” even during a major incident never gives enough information to steal someone’s identity this is probably something powers at play will say. But it’s false, most information that goes out over the air is just name…
When an officer actually needs Name and DOB that is after that fact when things have calmed down and can easily switch channels. I’ve never heard a foot pursuit and an officer is chasing someone yelling out their SSN. It just doesn’t happen. Most departments will post the name of the suspect immediately on twitter or facebook feeds so protecting names can’t be the issue. Most names dispatch give is just a curiosity also, it’s not a call that exist in America that is required for the officer to know the subject name before arrival.. that can be something sent thru the MDT… descriptions work just fine.. most officers don’t go around yelling names
On vehicle exit they approach who matches description then gather names after detaining…

We have a right to monitor and most would have talked/ petitioned to officials if it was known it was going to be a massive encryption movement , they kept that under wraps to prevent it being in city councils hands etc.

 

[k27]

“PII” even during a major incident never gives enough information to steal someone’s identity this is probably something powers at play will say. But it’s false, most information that goes out over the air is just name…
When an officer actually needs Name and DOB that is after that fact when things have calmed down and can easily switch channels. I’ve never heard a foot pursuit and an officer is chasing someone yelling out their SSN. It just doesn’t happen. Most departments will post the name of the suspect immediately on twitter or facebook feeds so protecting names can’t be the issue. Most names dispatch give is just a curiosity also, it’s not a call that exist in America that is required for the officer to know the subject name before arrival.. that can be something sent thru the MDT… descriptions work just fine.. most officers don’t go around yelling names
On vehicle exit they approach who matches description then gather names after detaining…

We have a right to monitor and most would have talked/ petitioned to officials if it was known it was going to be a massive encryption movement , they kept that under wraps to prevent it being in city councils hands etc.

I meant **courtesy and also if it wasn’t possible to protect PII during live transmissions. Why does Davis county, Box Elder , Cache etc have chosen to not go encryption… they recognize their citizens rights to listen and have clear transparency… if agency’s in Davis which as a whole is 10x busier than Weber agencies can do it, what is the difference?

 

[gmclam]

I think it is too early to tell the totality of all TGs that will be encrypted. One reason to stay in the clear is so that neighboring agencies can easily monitor for quicker aid. In my area we have the county sheriff, local PD (and there are several), highway patrol and others that can easily aid one another. It's much easier/safer if officers/etc. can monitor stuff live. When you encrypt, you don't just take your signal away from the general public; but you also take it away from those that will likely come to your aid in the time of need.

This is a complex issue and is really OT to discuss in this thread - other than perhaps who is and who is not monitorable on the new system.

 

[kf7yn]

Hey guys, it's been awhile since I posted, been busy with a lot of stuff.
I'm hearing UHP SL East Dispatch on the new system. I'm using my Whistler TRX2 and hear what sounds like squelch tail on most but not all transmissions (I know it's not squelch being digital) but wondering if anyone knows what setting, if any, can remedy that.

Thanks,
Jon
KF7YN

 

[PMJ2kx]

Hey guys, it's been awhile since I posted, been busy with a lot of stuff.
I'm hearing UHP SL East Dispatch on the new system. I'm using my Whistler TRX2 and hear what sounds like squelch tail on most but not all transmissions (I know it's not squelch being digital) but wondering if anyone knows what setting, if any, can remedy that.

Thanks,
Jon
KF7YN

It's 800 patched to 700. It will go away once they completely transition all agencies over to 700. I observed the same thing with both Tooele County and Utah County.

Salt Lake County starts the process on Monday and is scheduled for approximately 2 weeks to complete, assuming nothing breaks or they hit any other snags. So...you'll be hearing it for a little while longer.

 

[kf7yn]

Good info, much appreciated. Thanks PMJ2kx

 

[maus92]

Here's the operational scenario that more or less justifies encryption. A city police department has multiple foot and bike patrol beats where the officers have no access to MDTs during their shift. They need to run an ID check on a detainee but the agency that runs the communication system does not have sufficient staffing to operate a dedicated data channel full time. PII info would then be transmitted on a clear channel, thus vulnerable to intercept and potential misuse.

 

[fireparamed1]

Here's the operational scenario that more or less justifies encryption. A city police department has multiple foot and bike patrol beats where the officers have no access to MDTs during their shift. They need to run an ID check on a detainee but the agency that runs the communication system does not have sufficient staffing to operate a dedicated data channel full time. PII info would then be transmitted on a clear channel, thus vulnerable to intercept and potential misuse.

The fix to this is already in place.....Most larger agencies that have "Multiple foot and bike patrols" already use a "service channel" for getting and giving out that information. The average call goes like this: Police and Dispatcher are on a geographically based channel, if they are a large enough department, or, a dispatch and response channel if they are smaller or less busy. While the officer is dispatached, enroute, and arrives, he stays on that main channel. After investigating, doing whatever needs to be done, if they need to run checks, they go to service and THAT could be encrypted. They get the information about the suspect, then go back to the main channel. It literally is already that way in SLC and Davis County and has been for years. The personally identifiable information could be encrypted on secondary channels or via MDT's 99% of the time.

This is 100% an opprotunity to keep people from being aware of what is going on in their community. Yes, it will also help with the small fraction of people who show up on calls to "Watch", and the even smaller group that are committing crimes and using this to aid them.

 

[gldavis]

Encryption has been available for several decades. The radios used on the 800 MHz system, had the ability for encryption, if the department (Chief) truly believed that it was needed for whatever reason/excuse (privacy and/or officer safety). Why is privacy magically a concern now, when it has never been before? (and is this sudden push for encryption, an admission that thousands of citizens privacy has been exposed/misused?)

 

[Spadinator]

I am a retired 23 year deputy...started with VHF then to 800mhz encryption was never a concern. The last 25 years of my career everything was done by MDT anyway. We very rarely ran information through dispatch.