vertex vx-1dr

[N4RDX]

I have looked at the op manual of the new vertex vx-1DR and the way it programs and from what i can see it will not work on the MotoTRBO repeaters but I would like to know if anyone has one and tried to get it to work? Maybe i overlooked something in the manual, I would like to know if its going to work or not.

 

[AK9R]

First of all, your post has been moved to a new thread rather than hijack the DMR Repeaters thread with a question about a particular radio.

Secondly, are you referring to the Yaesu FT-1DR? I don't see a Vertex VX-1DR listed on Vertex's web site.

 

[VE7WV]

Are you talking about the Yaesu FT-1DR?

If so, no, that unit - C4MA/FDMA (aligned with DMR Tier 1 - intended for unlicensed radio equipment) is not capable of operating in a TRBO C4MA/TDMA (DMR Tier 2) environment.

Their white paper suggests that a DMR compatible system might one day be forthcoming from them - that would be fantastic - but it's been awfully quiet with no news from Yaesu Munsen.

 

[DisasterGuy]

I have looked at the op manual of the new vertex vx-1DR and the way it programs and from what i can see it will not work on the MotoTRBO repeaters but I would like to know if anyone has one and tried to get it to work? Maybe i overlooked something in the manual, I would like to know if its going to work or not.

Assuming that you are talking about the FT-1DR, it WILL NOT do DMR (ie: MotoTRBO, Momentum, etc). The FT-1DR is FDMA where DMR is TDMA. With that said, I am far from convinced that the FT-1DR will not do Phase 1 P25 conventional. While it lists the AMBE-2 vocodor rather than the IMBE, you will find that every public safety radio for P25 also uses the AMBE-2 vocodor.

 

[JStemann]

I thought it was tested with trbo and p25 radios (mentioned in the other ft1d thread), but I could be wrong. Also, when I was looking over the manual for the radio, the specs show "F7W" for the emission designator. I would think if it were p25 capable, it would show "F1E". In fact according to the emission designators over on the wiki: Emission Designator - The RadioReference Wiki , the only "F7W" I could find was for NXDN.

I don't know how specific the "F7W" is, though, as far as the specific type of modulation used goes. Meaning the "F7W" could encompass a LOT of different modulation types but maybe it's "mostly" used for NXDN. For example the "F1E" mentioned above covers a LOT of other modulation types besides p25, without having the first 4 digits it's pretty much a guess. It would help if Yaesu would have given more to work with than just the last three digits.

Will this radio work with Nexedge/Idas radios??? I don't know, maybe someone will buy one someday and let us know since Yaesu won't really tell us what (if anything else) it will work with.

Jeff.

 

[VE7WV]

I'm not aware of any compatibility testing with P25, NXDN, or DMR. The existing product FDMA *could* be DMR Tier I compatible (commercial DMR products are *not* Tier I but Tier II (TDMA)), but the big unknown is over the protocol used... and I'm guessing they went their own route here.

 

[JStemann]

I'm not aware of any compatibility testing with P25, NXDN, or DMR. The existing product FDMA *could* be DMR Tier I compatible (commercial DMR products are *not* Tier I but Tier II (TDMA)), but the big unknown is over the protocol used... and I'm guessing they went their own route here.

The only "testing" I was referring to, was in reference to a few hams that had tried using the sample ft-1's at hamvention with their p25 and/or TRBO radios. Again, I'm only going from memory here, so it's very possible I misread something in the other thread.


Jeff.

 

[VE7WV]

We can at least rule out FT-1DR working with DMR sets, because as they are currently spec'd and sold, it's just not possible for a FT-1DR to communicate with a MOTOTRBO/Vertex/Harris/Hytera set, unless both are using standard analogue FM.

I do hope Yaesu decides to embrace DMR fully and bring out Tier 2 sets (and repeaters). If they did they would not be going it alone and could lever off of the existing DMR networks and user base.

But... I fear they won't and instead will come out with a more ham-centric product.

The DMR specification for subscriber sets (radios) speaks to a numeric identification number, not alphanumeric, so id'ing radios by call sign (common in ham adaptations of digital over the air tech) can't be accomplished. The current DMR amateur radio network relies on cooperation and registration - send a note to a central authority to get back however many radio ID's one needs.

Judging from the Yaesu literature their first product implementation feels to me quite different than the DMR spec, although for future products it's conceivable they could build flexibility into the product such that it could participate in a MOTOTRBO compatible DMR network.

If they ham-ified the DMR spec for their own products then we'd see a balkanization of DMR-Commercial and DMR-Ham users, meaning the two would not be able to talk to one another directly, necessitating some sort of digital gateway product be developed.

Or they could roll with what already exists and works very well and join the already world-wide DMR networks and there'd be benefits to Yaesu in doing that given that currently the only suppliers (other than eBay sellers) of sets are commercial sellers and they are not well setup to deal with Radio Amateurs. Programming sets is complicated, best done at the club level rather than each individual, especially where Motorola gear comes in due to the complexities in getting the software in the first place. Vertex is easier in that regard.

If there was a maker of robust DMR Tier II gear and software, available from regular Amateur Radio supply channels, with simplified setup aimed at individual hams, that'd be very cool indeed.

Hey, a "configuration server", on air, as part of a repeater system, that broadcast programming packets such that subscriber sets could merely listen to an assigned frequency and be populated with the right info... turn a new radio on and within short order it is ready to go... yaesu should build those sets and that infrastructure.

 

[JRayfield]

Some good points regarding DMR.

With regards to over-the-air programming, the Motorola XPR5000-series mobiles, the XPR7000-series portables, and the XPR3000-series portables can be programmed over-the-air. I've never tried it through the DMR-MARC network, but it sounds like a good experiment just waiting to be tried. It should work.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma
W0PM

We can at least rule out FT-1DR working with DMR sets, because as they are currently spec'd and sold, it's just not possible for a FT-1DR to communicate with a MOTOTRBO/Vertex/Harris/Hytera set, unless both are using standard analogue FM.

I do hope Yaesu decides to embrace DMR fully and bring out Tier 2 sets (and repeaters). If they did they would not be going it alone and could lever off of the existing DMR networks and user base.

But... I fear they won't and instead will come out with a more ham-centric product.

The DMR specification for subscriber sets (radios) speaks to a numeric identification number, not alphanumeric, so id'ing radios by call sign (common in ham adaptations of digital over the air tech) can't be accomplished. The current DMR amateur radio network relies on cooperation and registration - send a note to a central authority to get back however many radio ID's one needs.

Judging from the Yaesu literature their first product implementation feels to me quite different than the DMR spec, although for future products it's conceivable they could build flexibility into the product such that it could participate in a MOTOTRBO compatible DMR network.

If they ham-ified the DMR spec for their own products then we'd see a balkanization of DMR-Commercial and DMR-Ham users, meaning the two would not be able to talk to one another directly, necessitating some sort of digital gateway product be developed.

Or they could roll with what already exists and works very well and join the already world-wide DMR networks and there'd be benefits to Yaesu in doing that given that currently the only suppliers (other than eBay sellers) of sets are commercial sellers and they are not well setup to deal with Radio Amateurs. Programming sets is complicated, best done at the club level rather than each individual, especially where Motorola gear comes in due to the complexities in getting the software in the first place. Vertex is easier in that regard.

If there was a maker of robust DMR Tier II gear and software, available from regular Amateur Radio supply channels, with simplified setup aimed at individual hams, that'd be very cool indeed.

Hey, a "configuration server", on air, as part of a repeater system, that broadcast programming packets such that subscriber sets could merely listen to an assigned frequency and be populated with the right info... turn a new radio on and within short order it is ready to go... yaesu should build those sets and that infrastructure.

 

[VE7WV]

John - oh yeah, there's that RM button in CPS. I didn't know it was restricted to 2nd gen devices but do have two 7550 portables with which to experiment one of these days.

Mike