AR-DV10 very serious hardware issue

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TMac20

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The below is in reference to one of the videos Woodpecker has online for the drift.

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QUOTE FROM AOR:

That AR-DV10 was almost certainly in the very first shipment to Europe. All the ones we've sold have proven to have no issues.

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TMac20

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So - I can only assume that a bunch of units are out there that had or have issues from the first release (possibly hardware problems or amongst other things software). I don't know if anyone in the forum is keeping a serial number register to see if that can help.
 

palmerjrusa

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The below is in reference to one of the videos Woodpecker has online for the drift.

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QUOTE FROM AOR:

That AR-DV10 was almost certainly in the very first shipment to Europe. All the ones we've sold have proven to have no issues.

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Including no frequency drift?
 

TMac20

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The below is in reference to one of the videos Woodpecker has online for the drift.

----------------------------------
QUOTE FROM AOR:

That AR-DV10 was almost certainly in the very first shipment to Europe. All the ones we've sold have proven to have no issues.

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Sorry this should have had "AOR DEALER" not "AOR"
 

TMac20

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Including no frequency drift?
Hello,

That was my specific question to them, this was the answer all verbatim;

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AOR has already replicated that drift issue in their lab and corrected it - and that's especially so on UHF (450MHz test frequency).

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palmerjrusa

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Hello,

That was my specific question to them, this was the answer all verbatim;

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AOR has already replicated that drift issue in their lab and corrected it - and that's especially so on UHF (450MHz test frequency).

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Great news if that proves to be accurate.

Although how they've achieved that will be interesting to know, since they appear to have engineered that 15kHz bandwidth filter to mask the drift.
 

c0ne

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QUOTE FROM AOR:

The new firmware’s feature improvements and bug fixes will probably be sufficient and effective to reassure the end user.
No offense, but that says nothing at all. The time of sit back and trust AOR is gone.
 

c0ne

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No matter what they patch, it will always be outperformed by any cheaper brand simply on performance and detailed features like signal info on the recording, detailed digital signal info, decoding performance. The other brands are way ahead of AOR! This is just 2015’s technology reintroduced in 2018. Other brands dont pull dirty stunts like AOR did!
 

palmerjrusa

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No matter what they patch, it will always be outperformed by any cheaper brand simply on performance and detailed features like signal info on the recording, detailed digital signal info, decoding performance. The other brands are way ahead of AOR! This is just 2015’s technology reintroduced in 2018. Other brands dont pull dirty stunts like AOR did!
I'm willing to give them a chance to fix everything.
If AOR claims to have fixed the problems then that should be easy to verify, just allow an independent reviewer to examine a randomly sourced ARDV10 unit and put it to the test.
 

c0ne

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I'm willing to give them a chance to fix everything.
If AOR claims to have fixed the problems then that should be easy to verify, just allow an independent reviewer to examine a randomly sourced ARDV10 unit and put it to the test.
If they are able to fix it, why add a sheet of paper saying you could notice a drift that exceeds the 5ppm?
 

palmerjrusa

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If they are able to fix it, why add a sheet of paper saying you could notice a drift that exceeds the 5ppm?
I don't know.
Nevertheless, I'm willing to be agnostic on this and see if AOR comes through and resolves the issues everyone has documented.

I certainly agree, if the receiver still suffers from serious drift at the end of the day it's worthless and AOR have shot themselves in the foot over this.
Also concerned, as you are, with the very basic level of the digital technology, though that could be improved with future firmware upgrades.

Icom appear to be streets ahead of AOR. I've just uploaded the most recent firmware to my ic-r30 receiver and I wasn't even aware of any bugs since I purchased it, very pleased with its performance and it was $500 cheaper than the ARDV10 though doesn't decode as many digital modes.
 

woodpecker

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The below is in reference to one of the videos Woodpecker has online for the drift.
----------------------------------
QUOTE FROM AOR:

That AR-DV10 was almost certainly in the very first shipment to Europe. All the ones we've sold have proven to have no issues.
------------------------------------
TMac - This is just nonsense, when are you going to come clean and tell us who you work for, AOR or Yaesu.

Nothing has been proven to have no issues, the DV10 is so messed up and now you've even added a pigeon english erratum sheet about the drift to the LATEST batch, its an absolute joke.

Maybe its time to put your money where your mouth is, you have my email address, Paypal me the funds to buy a unit from the latest batch and I'll run the same tests on it. If its good I'll refund you the money and send the current one back for refund.
 

F5HPE

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Legal warranty vs Commercial warranty

Mike, please take time to read clearly the link you gave us.
Your link gives 2 ideas about "what is warranty"
There are 2 type of warranties.

The legal guarantee concerns manufacturing defects.
The commercial guarantee concerns breakdowns.
These are two completely different types of warranty and few users know how to make a difference.

To make the legal warranty work based on the DV10 Drift postulate, the customer must prove that the product is defective. To date, there is only one video whose legal legitimacy and impartiality can be defeated by any prosecutor, lawyer or notified body before court.

As said previously, check the videos in slow motion and you will find severals mistakes of measurement.
 

woodpecker

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Mike, please take time to read clearly the link you gave us.
Your link gives 2 ideas about "what is warranty"
There are 2 type of warranties.

The legal guarantee concerns manufacturing defects.
The commercial guarantee concerns breakdowns.
These are two completely different types of warranty and few users know how to make a difference.

To make the legal warranty work based on the DV10 Drift postulate, the customer must prove that the product is defective. To date, there is only one video whose legal legitimacy and impartiality can be defeated by any prosecutor, lawyer or notified body before court.

As said previously, check the videos in slow motion and you will find severals mistakes of measurement.
The manufacturer has now issued an erratum acknowledging there is a frequency/error stability issue, they have not quantified the error just issued a poorly worded document.

The acknowledgement that the product has an inherent manufacturing/design defect means any UK or EU customer would have no difficulty in claiming against the retailer that sold them product.

If in year 5 of ownership you found the radio drifted too much to work properly listening to a signal you could issue a claim on the retailer to replace, repair or refund the product, you need to provide no more evidence than the erratum that acknowledged the defect.

In the UK it would cost £60 to issue a small claims court claim, the retailer will lose and the costs trying to defend it would be way more than replacing the product.

Retailers need to get a grip, some think they can wriggle out of their obligations with BS.
 

F5HPE

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Nothing more than a missprint.

The manufacturer has now issued an erratum acknowledging there is a frequency/error stability issue,.
The manual shows "MANUAL ERRATUM". Nothing more.
The publication of a "MANUAL ERRATUM" provides a better understanding of the product's specifications and performance.
This is in no way any acknowledgment of quality weakness. To interpret it as such is only the personal comprehension of the reader who seeks no further than the tip of his nose.

The manufacturer has not initiated a product recall for any compliance such as the car manufacturers.
So there is no hidden defect or manufacturing defect.

Just a MANUAL ARRATUM.
Nothing which can be covered by any warranty or claim.
 

TMac20

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I don't know.
Nevertheless, I'm willing to be agnostic on this and see if AOR comes through and resolves the issues everyone has documented.

I certainly agree, if the receiver still suffers from serious drift at the end of the day it's worthless and AOR have shot themselves in the foot over this.
Also concerned, as you are, with the very basic level of the digital technology, though that could be improved with future firmware upgrades.

Icom appear to be streets ahead of AOR. I've just uploaded the most recent firmware to my ic-r30 receiver and I wasn't even aware of any bugs since I purchased it, very pleased with its performance and it was $500 cheaper than the ARDV10 though doesn't decode as many digital modes.
This is exactly what I have done - however I spent the money and bought the unit last week (although missed the courier drop off yesterday). I will hang in there for a while until the next 1-2 updates in the hope that they iron out any bugs and see how bad the drift is. I'll also run all tests to and publish here for everyone - including internal photo's.

For a 40 odd year company I don't believe AOR would intentionally do this, of course something is not right for some users so far, but I'm willing to give them some leeway to see how the firmware updates go.

I skipped the DV1 originally as it had all sorts of issues, for the most part they ironed those out over time.

I will get the ICR30 also, it's extremely good value for money compared to the DV10. If Icom are wanting to dominate they will update some of the digital formats if possible and they will have the market. They are a very solid manufacturer and always have been.
 

TMac20

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The manual shows "MANUAL ERRATUM". Nothing more.
The publication of a "MANUAL ERRATUM" provides a better understanding of the product's specifications and performance.
This is in no way any acknowledgment of quality weakness. To interpret it as such is only the personal comprehension of the reader who seeks no further than the tip of his nose.

The manufacturer has not initiated a product recall for any compliance such as the car manufacturers.
So there is no hidden defect or manufacturing defect.

Just a MANUAL ARRATUM.
Nothing which can be covered by any warranty or claim.
Not that anyone likes when a manufacturer changes material or marketing specs, but again, if people are not happy to wait and see what they can or can't fix, return the unit get your money back once you see nothing is going to fix the issues your having. So easy, less headache, no drama.
 

marlbrook

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I started this thread

The manual shows "MANUAL ERRATUM". Nothing more.
The publication of a "MANUAL ERRATUM" provides a better understanding of the product's specifications and performance.
This is in no way any acknowledgment of quality weakness. To interpret it as such is only the personal comprehension of the reader who seeks no further than the tip of his nose.

The manufacturer has not initiated a product recall for any compliance such as the car manufacturers.
So there is no hidden defect or manufacturing defect.

Just a MANUAL ARRATUM.
Nothing which can be covered by any warranty or claim.
I started this thread. It is for its Readers to think carefully about the veracity of posts here, and consider 'if' and 'what' are the motives behind what is being said.
 

F5HPE

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Not that anyone likes when a manufacturer changes material or marketing specs, but again, if people are not happy to wait and see what they can or can't fix, return the unit get your money back once you see nothing is going to fix the issues your having. So easy, less headache, no drama.
That's Correct. Easy to be refunded EU laws are there for that........except if you have corrupted your stuf.
In such way you can only say:
"I killed my dog because he had rabies."
Nobody will control.
 
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