AR-DV10 very serious hardware issue

[woodpecker]

AOR and Yaesu - You both should be ashamed for the DV10 mess!

What a disgusting way for AOR and Yaesu to behave, release an off frequency drifting piece of junk and think the fix is to add a telescopic antenna and a sheet of paper saying it doesn't meet spec, wow!!

Also note, besides HF, the drift makes the DV10 useless for SSB/CW on 2m, 70cm and 23cm and any application where you need to know what frequency you're tuned to within a few kHz, there is no accuracy in the tuning whatsoever with it.

It also degrades digital performance as the bit error rate will be higher and the automode filter is way too wide.

For US customers its just not worth looking at, even if you get an in spec unit, at the top of the 900MHz band you could have a radio that drifts nearly 10kHz (+/- 4.8 kHz). Couple that with the fact it displays almost no digital signal information, all you'll get is NAC, Color Code and RAN, no TGs, no RIDs, it doesn't support P25 Phase 2 and the firmware is so broken the radio continually malfunctions and locks up.

No wonder AOR France (F5HPE) and TMac20 have gone quiet, after all the BS the final admission is in black and white print, IT CAN'T BE FIXED!

 

[palmerjrusa]

If you want something that does DMR/NXDN you are better of with a Uniden/Whistler fir the simple reason it shows detailed signal info wich is kinda needed so you know what/who you are listening to. If you are into HF the icom is most likely a better choice because its frequency is more stable on that.

Just bought the SDS100 and so far so good. Apart from the lousy battery life which Uniden has promised to address by sending me a new and better one. We'll see when it arrives.

 

[palmerjrusa]

What a disgusting way for AOR and Yaesu to behave, release an off frequency drifting piece of junk and think the fix is to add a telescopic antenna and a sheet of paper saying it doesn't meet spec, wow!!

Also note, besides HF, the drift makes the DV10 useless for SSB/CW on 2m, 70cm and 23cm and any application where you need to know what frequency you're tuned to within a few kHz, there is no accuracy in the tuning whatsoever with it.

It also degrades digital performance as the bit error rate will be higher and the automode filter is way too wide.

For US customers its just not worth looking at, even if you get an in spec unit, at the top of the 900MHz band you could have a radio that drifts nearly 10kHz (+/- 4.8 kHz). Couple that with the fact it displays almost no digital signal information, all you'll get is NAC, Color Code and RAN, no TGs, no RIDs, it doesn't support P25 Phase 2 and the firmware is so broken the radio continually malfunctions and locks up.

No wonder AOR France (F5HPE) and TMac20 have gone quiet, after all the BS the final admission is in black and white print, IT CAN'T BE FIXED!

They should withdraw it from the market, it's not performing as described.
This is a shame, my AOR 7030 is the best HF receiver I've ever owned and my AR5000+3 is the best wideband receiver I've ever owned.

 

[palmerjrusa]

Hello,

Interesting that Universal Radio put a warning about returns for the DV-10 and not for the DV-1.
"NOTE: The AR-DV10 is not eligible for return or refund under any circumstances. Defective items are resolved directly with the manufacturer under manufacturer warranty."
https://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/widerxvr/0410.html

I am glad I waited as it seems that some dealers do not want to deal with a defective AOR product when AOR does not want to address the defect. It is not like the defect can be totally hidden from users, unless AOR will quietly fix the defect for their "major" customers. Hobbyists seem to be a minor marketing segment to them.

73 Eric

Univeral appear to be saying the same re the ARDV1:

"The special order AR-DV1 is not eligible for return or refund under any circumstances. Defective items are resolved directly with the manufacturer under manufacturer warranty."

https://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/widerxvr/6369.html

 

[TMac20]

What a disgusting way for AOR and Yaesu to behave, release an off frequency drifting piece of junk and think the fix is to add a telescopic antenna and a sheet of paper saying it doesn't meet spec, wow!!

Also note, besides HF, the drift makes the DV10 useless for SSB/CW on 2m, 70cm and 23cm and any application where you need to know what frequency you're tuned to within a few kHz, there is no accuracy in the tuning whatsoever with it.

It also degrades digital performance as the bit error rate will be higher and the automode filter is way too wide.

For US customers its just not worth looking at, even if you get an in spec unit, at the top of the 900MHz band you could have a radio that drifts nearly 10kHz (+/- 4.8 kHz). Couple that with the fact it displays almost no digital signal information, all you'll get is NAC, Color Code and RAN, no TGs, no RIDs, it doesn't support P25 Phase 2 and the firmware is so broken the radio continually malfunctions and locks up.

No wonder AOR France (F5HPE) and TMac20 have gone quiet, after all the BS the final admission is in black and white print, IT CAN'T BE FIXED!

----------------

Hello

It's a shame this has happened, all your testing has not been in vain and if AOR do not come to the party and replace yours - and correct all issues identified (and anyone else) as it's meant to it will be the biggest mistake they could have made in their history. If it comes down to hardware, it would be far cheaper to recall units now, fess up, sort it out, and I think all of us would be ok with that.

I have lot's of things to share which I will over the next few posts - I wanted to wait until had my DV10 which will be in my hands hopefully today.

I will start a new thread with all of the comments, feedback, results to date for new/potential/existing users.

I did not doubt any issues you identified, I wanted to solely keep the flow of information that will only help all of us in any future dealings with AOR and their dealers. All of which are now on the hook legally if they do not do the right thing by us. I've also been respectful and honest to all on the threads - NO BS has coem from me.

If you don't return your unit, my offer stands to give you $250 for your efforts and testing and if AOR don't fix the problems, maybe with your skill and others on RR we can get a fix to any potential hardware problems once they are done with firmware updates (or even sooner).

I'll be honest, if Icom are reading - you should include DMR in an update and a few other things and you will clean-up the whole market. For $800 odd AUD it's an amazing price and feature set (if the performance is up to scratch).

I'm staying optimistic as I can be. A few user updates in the last few days out of Germany, Netherlands and Australia are looking promising but it goes without saying this could simply be for their use cases and not as per spec from AOR.

 

[woodpecker]

----------------
NO BS has coem from me.

It was you who stated everything would be "exclusively fixed in firmware" and you had inside information on this.

The "fix" is an erratum sheet of paper that says it fails to meet spec and then doesn't even say what it does meet.

Maybe you should get your "contacts" at AOR and Yaesu to upgrade the brochures with this new unknown out of spec frequency stability.

In the UK and EU this behaviour does not comply with the Consumer Contracts Regulations.

 

[F5HPE]

....The "fix" is an erratum sheet of paper that says it fails ....In the UK and EU this behaviour does not comply with the Consumer Contracts Regulations.

The original leaflet mention clearly: specs are subject to change without notice....


So it is totally in compliance with EU regulation.
Due to Brexit.....in UK I can't say.

 

[woodpecker]

The original leaflet mention clearly: specs are subject to change without notice....

That doesn't stand up in law, YOU as the retailer would lose any court case, at least we know what sort of business AOR, Yaesu and AOR France is, happy to mislead the consumer.

 

[G7HID]

Message from AOR Ali...

 

[F5HPE]

That doesn't stand up in law, YOU as the retailer would lose any court case, at least we know what sort of business AOR, Yaesu and AOR France is, happy to mislead the consumer.

Is there some one on this forum who as intention to sue the manufacturer?

 

[woodpecker]

Is there some one on this forum who as intention to sue the manufacturer?

No, contract is with the retailer.

The 6 year warranty is with the retailer, that's YOU and the other retailers.

 

[TMac20]

It was you who stated everything would be "exclusively fixed in firmware" and you had inside information on this.

The "fix" is an erratum sheet of paper that says it fails to meet spec and then doesn't even say what it does meet.

Maybe you should get your "contacts" at AOR and Yaesu to upgrade the brochures with this new unknown out of spec frequency stability.

In the UK and EU this behaviour does not comply with the Consumer Contracts Regulations.

Hi Woodpecker,

It was a verbatim reply from AOR direct. It's all I can go by when corroborated by 4 others (2 dealers and three AOR replies making it 5 in total) who all stated the same.

Sure you have every right to be annoyed with the product - I could be too in a few days once I finish my testing - and if I find anything not up to my expectation I'll go a step further that no one has had the balls to do, I will open mine up, photograph everything and post it online for all and if your interested or want to help find a solution if AOR won;t let's do it for everyone.

Like I stated it will all be well. Because one way or another outside the time wasted you, me and anyone else can get a refund (I'm prepared to write off the money if I open it up and potentially void the warranty, it's no big deal for me) Put it to my contribution to RR and users for all these years of great reading and research when needed.

Everyone gets your point, that a device should not be marketed or sold if not up to scratch - no one has said on this forum they are against you for that. In fact, we all support the same position I believe.

So now we can move forward yes ?

 

[woodpecker]

In fact, we all support the same position I believe.

The only person in this thread that represents AOR has now publically quoted:-

"specs are subject to change without notice"

We clearly all do not support the same position.

We now know exactly where we stand with AOR, its dealers and Yaesu, they have no intention to sort this out, instead try and wriggle out of it with some poorly translated ridiculous erratum, which is technically incorrect as well.

 

[G7HID]

The only person in this thread that represents AOR has now publically quoted:-

"specs are subject to change without notice"...........

I do not think this person actually represents AOR Japan, all he has done is quote from an AOR addendum sheet, he is just a camp follower, a reseller of their products with no representation of AOR Japan. Unless AOR Japan tell us differently...

Mike

 

[c0ne]

How a company wasted their credits, and whent from hero to zero in 3 months. This might be legal but sure is not forgivenable. Good job AOR and good luck wirh future sales.

 

[F5HPE]

The 6 year warranty is with the retailer...

Which retailler offered you 6year warranty?
Santa Claus himself can't offer.

 

[G7HID]

Which retailler offered you 6year warranty?
Santa Claus himself can't offer.

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citize...uarantees-returns/united-kingdom/index_en.htm

Mike

 

[TMac20]

Which retailler offered you 6year warranty?
Santa Claus himself can't offer.

Gents

I do not know why everyone is worried about warranty. If you need to just return it now. It's so easy. For those that want to keep it and see what happens its ok too.

Don't keep torturing yourself, it's only a radio - yes an expensive one that you can get your money back for those that want to in the warranty period (I believe that is the warranty if it's faulty and not perform to the standard it was marketed or sold to anyone). I have got 2 year warranty with my unit.

Not sure on UK laws, but we have implied warranties/fit for purpose etc. in Australia they are very broad and go well past the standard warranty to protect consumers.

Another update is on its way for firmware - some are testing now.

 

[c0ne]

Gents

I do not know why everyone is worried about warranty. If you need to just return it now. It's so easy. For those that want to keep it and see what happens its ok too.

Don't keep torturing yourself, it's only a radio - yes an expensive one that you can get your money back for those that want to in the warranty period (I believe that is the warranty if it's faulty and not perform to the standard it was marketed or sold to anyone). I have got 2 year warranty with my unit.

Not sure on UK laws, but we have implied warranties/fit for purpose etc. in Australia they are very broad and go well past the standard warranty to protect consumers.

Another update is on its way for firmware - some are testing now.

And what are they testing?

 

[TMac20]

QUOTE FROM AOR:

The new firmware’s feature improvements and bug fixes will probably be sufficient and effective to reassure the end user.