VOIP Goes Two-Way Radio

[hotdjdave]

I was at BestBuy tonight and I saw a product called DingoTel 2Way. It is a USB device that attaches to your computer. You connect a two-way radio (GMRS, FRS, business, etc.) to the device. The device, with included software, uses VOIP technology to call anyone in the world via your internet connection. But the innovative part is that you use an HT to communicate. One HT is attached to the device and you talk using the other one. The package indicated that there are not any service fees, service plans, or access fees of any type...just the one time purchase of the device (about $53.00).

The DingoTel website descibes it like this:

DingoTel™ - 2Way enables you to bridge two-way radio traffic across the Internet. It's simple setup allows you to communicate easily with your contacts in minutes.

Using the power of your computer, 2Way adds intelligence to your existing two-way radio infrastructure and lets you go beyond the 5/10 mile barrier. You can now talk with friends and family almost anywhere.

It is also ideal for business use. Manage sites in distant locations and reduce your phone bills. With zero operating costs, it's the ultimate freedom to talk.

​

Here is BestBuy's description:

Communicate easily with your contacts in minutes; voice recognition allows you to begin and end calls using verbal requests

Reduce your phone bills with no operating costs; free VoIP calls

Import contacts from Outlook or MSN Messenger and automatically invite them to join you online; spoken voice notification when your friends are online

Online, offline, block and busy status notifications keep you from being bothered

Voice commands and spoken phrases can be customized

Control the quality of the audio using choice of codecs, including the popular GSM Codec

Compatible with DirectX UpNP firewalls and NAT traversal and many other firewalls

Works with most 2-way radios that have a headset/microphone jack (some 2-way radios may require a special fly lead)

Minimum system requirements: 400MHz processor; Windows 98 SE, 2000, ME, XP; 256MB RAM; 100MB hard drive space; pair of 2-way radios; USB port and Internet connection

Includes fly lead for a single-pin 2.5mm headset/mic jack and CD-ROM with installation program and 2Way software for connection to the DingoTel network

Note: The caller you are communicating with does not need a 2Way radio, the 2Way device, or 2Way software; free client for connection to the DingoTel Network can be downloaded at www.dingotel.com/Pc/downloadpc.asp


​

The website is http://www.dingotel.com/2way/index.asp

Thought this was a cool device and wanted to share it with y'all.

 

[fineshot1]

This looks similar to IRLP or EchoLink (or actually a combo of the two communications protocals)technology. Dont forget while using at least one pair of radios you need a clear radio channel and that can be a pain when using FRS portables in an urban environment. The portable radio end of this is subject to all the usual problems associated with RF interference (cochannel, adjacent channel,jammers,etc) and battery depletion if long winded conversations go too long). I have used VOIP before and you can loose your IP connection for variouse reasons. Still - it does look interesting to experiment with.....

 

[tom_guess]

How much $$$$$$$?

 

[DELCOLHFC]

How much $$$$$$$?

just the one time purchase of the device (about $53.00).

 

[ReceiverBeaver]

In the simplest reguard the radio device is just being used as a large expensive microphone and speaker platform.

More gadgets for gadget freaks to play with and that is not necessarily a bad thing, just ore expense and more parts to go wrong.

And the whole show does cost money. There's that laptop or PC. And you are having to pay for an internet service to be on the internet unless you are portable and borrowing a wifi hotspot somewhere.

Color me a radio purist. I am a ham and a former longtime CB'er and to me there's just nothing like good old fashioned radio-to-radio.

This product is an interesting progression and I'm sure many folks will be able to make use of it. Smokem' if ya got em'

 

[nd5y]

Radio over Internet Protocol (RoIP) has been around for a while but that is the first time I have heard of a system in a bubble pack for consumers. http://www.dingotel.com

 

[CSL126]

I actually made something like this about a year or so ago lol. I connected a 2-way radio into my computer and setup Teamspeak, I was able to talk to all of my friends from all over my neighborhood.

 

[SCPD]

Hmmm, I didn't think it was legal to hook up an FRS radio to such a device. I guess I could be wrong.

 

[N_Jay]

Hmmm, I didn't think it was legal to hook up an FRS radio to such a device. I guess I could be wrong.

I don't think it is!

 

[nd5y]

Sec. 95.193 (FRS Rule 3) (e) No FRS unit may be interconnected to the public switched network.

Is the internet part of the public switched network or just telephones?

Sec. 95.194 (FRS Rule 4) (c) You may not attach any antenna, power amplifier, or other apparatus to an FRS unit that has not been FCC certified as part of that FRS unit. There are no exceptions to this rule and attaching any such apparatus to a FRS unit cancels the FCC certification and voids everyone's authority to operate the unit in the FRS.

Is a Dingo Tel an "other apparatus" ? Is it FCC certified?

GMRS and private land mobile licensees can use phone patches and various forms of remote control links so I guess it would be ok in those services.

 

[digitaljim6]

"Ex" and N_Jay have a point.

Take a look at 95.141 for GMRS and 95.193(e) for FRS. If the communication touches the Public Switched Telephone Network (a physical dial-type phone line is involved at any point), it's a no-no. In the case where there is Internet between the radio and the PSTN phone line, the communication still touches the PSTN so it is still a no-no. Even the Dingotel website makes it very clear that in some countries, it is a no-no.

Here's the actual text of the two sections:

95.141:
"No station in a GMRS system may be interconnected to the public switched telephone network except as and in accordance with the requirements and restrictions applied to a wireline control link (see §95.127)." [There is no 95.127 by the way]

95.193(e):
"(e) No FRS unit may be interconnected to the public switched network. "

Here's the definition of Interconnection from 95.1313 (the MURS portion of Part 95):
"MURS stations are prohibited from interconnection with the public switched network. Interconnection Defined. Connection through automatic or manual means of multi-use radio stations with the facilities of the public switched telephone network to permit the transmission of messages or signals between points in the wireline or radio network of a public telephone company and persons served by multi-use radio stations."

Even though this excerpt is from the MURS rules, it is likely that the FCC would use this or a very similar defintion for FRS and GMRS because they are also regulated in Part 95.

With respect to FRS, 95.194 prohibits physically connecting anything to an FRS radio unless whatever is being connected has also been FCC certified as part of that FRS unit. Dingotel doesn't give the specs for their "2Way" product online so we can't tell if it is FCC certified for FRS use with the specific FRS radio that is being used.

Here's the actual text of 95.194(c):

"(c) You may not attach any antenna, power amplifier, or other apparatus to an FRS unit that has not been FCC certified as part of that FRS unit. There are no exceptions to this rule and attaching any such apparatus to a FRS unit cancels the FCC certification and voids everyone's authority to operate the unit in the FRS."

Another issue is transmitter control. The phone call end is controlling your transmitter when the phone call end is talking to you. In GMRS, this presents a licensing question. If the phone call party (whether connected to PSTN or not) does not also have a GMRS license and they are not one of the "immediate family members" listed in 95.179, they'd be in violation for transmitting without a license and you'd be in violation for talking to an unlicensed station.

Make your choices from your own interpretation. Seems to me, though, that the FCC's intent is clear.

I don't think it is!

 

[digitaljim6]

Maybe you overlooked 95.141 . GMRS cannot interconnect.

GMRS and private land mobile licensees can use phone patches and various forms of remote control links so I guess it would be ok in those services.

 

[digitaljim6]

If the communication gets to the PSTN at any point, that's interconnection. The method used to do it isn't relevant.

Is the internet part of the public switched network or just telephones?

 

[hotdjdave]

Radios To Be Used By DingoTel 2Way

On the DingoTel website, they report that the following radios can be used with the device:

Radios Compatible with standard cable
The following Radio makes and models have been tested and have been found to be compatible with the cable supplied with the DingoTel 2Way package available in retail outlets:

All Motorola Talkabout radios - Compatible
Columbia FRS 22SPR - Compatible
Uniden CMRS 720-2 - Compatible
Cobra microtalk PR240 - Compatible
​

Radios requiring optional cable
The following Radio makes and models have been tested and require an optional cable. These radiostypically have a larger diameter audio jack, or have a dual pin audio jack:

Audiovox CMRS 150-2PK - 3mm audio jack
Motorola CLS 1410 - double pin (3mm & 2.5mm)
Midland C-227 - double pin (3mm & 2.5mm)
​

I wonder how they are getting around the FCC rules. Maybe there is some sort of loophole or they have made an arrangement with the FCC to have the rules altered or ammended.

We shall have to keep seeking.


Source: http://www.dingotel.com/2way/interoperability.asp

 

[N_Jay]

. . . . I wonder how they are getting around the FCC rules. Maybe there is some sort of loophole or they have made an arrangement with the FCC to have the rules altered or ammended.

We shall have to keep seeking.


Source: http://www.dingotel.com/2way/interoperability.asp

They are not getting around anything. They are not selling radio equipment.

What is illegal is the use of their equipment on FRS, not the equipment itself.

 

[digitaljim6]

Dingotel doesn't say anything about FCC certification that I could find on their website. "Will work" and "allowed to be used" are two obviously different things. Their site's FAQ does say, though, that it may not be legal to connect to the PSTN. There are other radio services in the US and probably in other countries where interconnection is allowed.

There could be a Report and Order, I suppose, that was issued since the GPO's latest online version of Part 95. Changes to the rules must follow the procedures in Part 1 so it would have been a very public process. Something so significant regarding FRS would have caused many trumpets to blare. I'd expect everybody to be selling phone patches if that were the case. Searching for "Dingotel" on the FCC website produced no matches so they probably haven't filed any petitions with the FCC.

It would go contrary to the basic purpose of FRS to allow interconnection, according to the 1996 FCC action that created FRS (WT Docket 95-102). Many equipment manufacturers agreed with the prohibition in their comments to the FCC during the rulemaking process.

 

[Grog]

BB has been selling them for over a year.

 

[N_Jay]

These confusing problems would go away if the FCC would grow some balls and declare VoIP as a "Telephone Service" not an "Information Service"!

 

[hotdjdave]

What is BB?

BB has been selling them for over a year.

What is BB?

 

[michaelsbus]

Best Buy...............!