Wasn’t P25 supposed to solve all interoperability problems?

[robertsdoug]

Well, P25 will certainly solve your interoperability problems if you all use the same radio channel. But when you don’t come out, this is exactly what happens-

Since the Secret Service is VHF and all of the local governments are probably 700/800, they would have needed to be patched. But at such an important event with so many well-funded agencies, that should have been no problem.

 

[N4DES]

From 2016 to 2020 we worked closely with the USSS, Coast Guard, and other local agencies coordinating the daily comms that protected 45, the "Southern White House", and his daily movements in Palm Beach County and never had issues from the initial coordination to actually putting the plans in action.

The USSS doesn't patch their comms to local systems by design. I believe someone at the CP wasn't doing their job relaying the information or there was a lot of hesitation by Command on what to do with the suspect.

 

[Citywide173]

Please provide your source for this claim. P25 was accepted as a standard for public safety, not to provide instant interoperability, but to prevent interoperability issues in the future, where multiple digital emission modes were available (NXDN, DMR, etc.) It also allowed for better use of the spectrum (narrowbanding.) With the advent of the multiband radios, true interoperability became more attainable, however the fact remains that agencies are very protective of "their" stuff (encryption) and that is one of the largest impediments to interoperability. Having worked with the USSS in a command post, I can assure you that they do not share any of their communications information with local public safety and I have to agree with @N4DES assessment above.

 

[kayn1n32008]

Interoperability isn't a technology, it's an attitude. No type or amount of technology will fix a territorial attitude.

 

[eaf1956]

Interoperability isn't a technology, it's an attitude. No type or amount of technology will fix a territorial attitude.

They all got to have their "FifeDom" Agencies encrypt their traffic and then complain about other agencies and interop ability. So the Right hand knows not what the Left is doing. AKA Secret Police

 

[Cameron314]

They all got to have their "FifeDom" Agencies encrypt their traffic and then complain about other agencies and interop ability. So the Right hand knows not what the Left is doing. AKA Secret Police

It has little to nothing to do with encryption. They don't want a ton of extra traffic on their channel.

 

[chief21]

The solution to disparate radio channels is the Unified Command Post, where operational commanders from each agency gather together to share information. The local agency's concern for the suspicious person should have reached the CP and should have been relayed to the other agencies... especially the Secret Service.

 

[eaf1956]

It has little to nothing to do with encryption. They don't want a ton of extra traffic on their channel.

Kinda like our Sheriff who complains about delays with AMR because they are on another system for FREE (Safe T) and wants them on the County System for a Fee but doesn't want their chatter to tie up the system. And they set up their own P25 Simulcast system and stayed off of SAFE T because they couldn't have their "chatter" channels on the State System.

 

[rcid1971]

Any USSS movement we've assisted in without a command post, the WHCA delivered radios to our own supervisors. Every critical call went through the supervisor, who was sitting next to a USSS agent handling their coms.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

For the swat team not to have been briefed by the USSS is a huge mistake. Was there a unified command post? Who was dispatching swat? On the USSS side, in the post shooting, they seemed very bewildered. I am sure the USSS wants to blame the locals on this one. In addition to the roof the shooter was on there was a huge water tower were spotters should have been positioned.

 

[MTS2000des]

During operation "Trump surrender", I handed out a half dozen portables on my system to USSS, they worked hand in hand with our sheriff and a dozen other LE agencies.

 

[rcid1971]

For the swat team not to have been briefed by the USSS is a huge mistake. Was there a unified command post? Who was dispatching swat? On the USSS side, in the post shooting, they seemed very bewildered. I am sure the USSS wants to blame the locals on this one. In addition to the roof the shooter was on there was a huge water tower were spotters should have been positioned.

This is clearly not your father’s USSS.

I’m still waiting for the report to expose who was an actual USSS protective detail member, and who was on site representing DHS HSI.

 

[Chronic]

" I handed out a half dozen portables on my system to USSS"
" My System"
This is where the entire issue starts.

 

[eaf1956]

" I handed out a half dozen portables on my system to USSS"
" My System"
This is where the entire issue starts.

Are you saying who wants to carry 5 or 6 different radios? USSS radio, Local State radio, Local YAHOO county radio

 

[MTS2000des]

" I handed out a half dozen portables on my system to USSS"
" My System"
This is where the entire issue starts.

How so?

 

[lenk911]

There is a wonderful product by JPS called an ACU-1000 (may have a later model). Everybody connects their portables to patch cables, programs the ACU appropriately and all on-scene radio systems can intercommunicate. No matter modulation mode or band. Make sure you have the suite of nationwide interop channels programmed in your radios. Install in your mobile command post. Many of my clients got them through FEMA for 10 cents on the dollar.

 

[EWC_BDN]

In theory it would be worse without P25. We went from Privacy Plus and EDACS to P25.

Analog trunking was tied to vendor. each vendor had to re-invent the wheel to sell a trunking system.

Communications systems will always get blamed when it's always a failure to plan.

People under stress seem to claim their radios don't work too, but usually it's their stress prevents them from using the radio correctly.

 

[N4KVE]

A friend of mine maintains Trump’s fleet of cars here in Palm Beach. Before Trump became 45, my friend was his part time chauffeur. When Mar a Lago first became the Southern White House, my friend was needed to drive Kellyanne Conway in the motorcade from the airport to Mar a Lago. He figured I’d like to see the photo of a bunch of VHF APX mobile radios specially made with a carry handle, 03 head, lighter plug power cord, & SO-239 antenna connector so a 19” VHF antenna could screw right into the radio. Must have been 20 or so piled on a pallet, with a key loader on top. And this past week, when Netanyahu came to town to visit Trump, radio comms were smooth, but our sheriff, when he was on TV said he’s had 4 years of experience doing this during 45.

 

[Linn]

I had a chance to ride in a motorcade when Biden was VP. Prior to Biden's arrival members of WHCA distributed radios the the Secret Service agents on the ground. I rode in a car with a Service agent and supervisor from another law enforcement agency one or two cars ahead of the limousine Biden was in. That car served as the command post during the motorcade. My primary job was to relay information to/from the motorcade to my agency. That was a long but interesting day.

 

[PACNWDude]

Project 25 was to set standards for public safety grade radios.....to assist with inter-operability. But, it still requires coordination and effort. Common Air Interface, data baud rate and so on were standardized so you would not be locked into one brand or manufacturers products.

Get a copy of the NIFOG, program radios accordingly, and as others have said, use devices like the ACU-1000/M or similar, and make it happen. (Analog channels and pre-arranged interop channels should be used as well).

Post 9/11/2001 grant money was also supposed to be used to increase the interoperability capabilities of public safety organizations and their communications, but here we are, plus 23 years and still experiencing the human factors that make this less likely.

Reference the many threads on this site of people wanting to bring Baofeng radios to fire response efforts, purchase surplus gear on auction sites and listen to their local agencies digital and encrypted comms. Or, many that go cheap on life-safety related radios and their use. P25 is and remains a standard, or starting point for public safety grade radios.