So recently I have been thinking about interoperability as a whole, and have realized that interoperability could mean having everyone in your state, or just 5 towns around you. Is there a true "defined" amount of interoperability that will usually do you well? Obviously everyone has the NIFOG stuff, but in general, like other towns fire talkgroups etc. Looking for more thoughts on this.
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What is a reasonable amount of interoperability?
- Thread starter Mboy00
- Start date
mrsvensven
Member
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2006
- Messages
- 181
Are you referring to radio programming? That's only a very small portion of what interoperability means. Programming radio channels does nothing if your users don't know when to switch from "channel 1" to something else. It's also a problem if your users switch to some other channel that they aren't authorized to use in that particular situation.
Interoperability requires policies, training, practice, friendships, and a certain mindset. Trying to use technology to improve interoperability will only get you so far.
Ideally there is an SOP that dictates what radio channel you use in a given situation. Maybe you would have an SOP that says that if you are operating within your own county you would operate directly on a county fireground channel, but anything outside your county requires someone to bring in a portable repeater on a NIFOG channel. Of course you also need to practice whatever SOP you come up with so that your users know where to find the appropriate channels in their radio. Hopefully there are established agencies at the county or state level that can help facilitate writing these SOPs. At a minimum, every state has a Statewide interoperability Coordinator (SWIC) that should be helpful.
Interoperability requires policies, training, practice, friendships, and a certain mindset. Trying to use technology to improve interoperability will only get you so far.
Ideally there is an SOP that dictates what radio channel you use in a given situation. Maybe you would have an SOP that says that if you are operating within your own county you would operate directly on a county fireground channel, but anything outside your county requires someone to bring in a portable repeater on a NIFOG channel. Of course you also need to practice whatever SOP you come up with so that your users know where to find the appropriate channels in their radio. Hopefully there are established agencies at the county or state level that can help facilitate writing these SOPs. At a minimum, every state has a Statewide interoperability Coordinator (SWIC) that should be helpful.
Last edited:
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
NIFOG in all public safety agency radios should be mandatory.
But as mrsvensven said, it's really something that is more than radio programming. Someone on here has something to the effect of this in their signature line: "Interoperability isn't a technology, it's an attitude".
Each state has a "SWIC", StateWide Interoperability Coordinator, usually run through the state department that handles the Office of Emergency Services, or what ever they call it. The SWIC is supposed to be the one that coordinates interoperability, and each agency should work with them to have a suitable statewide plan.
Radio programming is important, and there really isn't any reason to not have NIFOG channels in any modern public safety radio. But there should be ongoing discussions between agencies that work together or expect to rely on each other for mutual aid. That requires people sitting down and talking it through, including the guys who program the radios so any band/mode issues can be aired out as part of the process.
It should also include things like patching, sharing phone numbers between dispatch centers, and each agency having a pretty good idea what capabilities each has.
Trunking gets sticky, but it's possible. Having interop talkgroups shared with other agencies is a good idea. Having inter system links setup so radios can roam on to others when necessary is a good idea. Having the ability to patch trunked talkgroups into interop conventional repeaters is a good idea.
But as mrsvensven said, it's really something that is more than radio programming. Someone on here has something to the effect of this in their signature line: "Interoperability isn't a technology, it's an attitude".
Each state has a "SWIC", StateWide Interoperability Coordinator, usually run through the state department that handles the Office of Emergency Services, or what ever they call it. The SWIC is supposed to be the one that coordinates interoperability, and each agency should work with them to have a suitable statewide plan.
Radio programming is important, and there really isn't any reason to not have NIFOG channels in any modern public safety radio. But there should be ongoing discussions between agencies that work together or expect to rely on each other for mutual aid. That requires people sitting down and talking it through, including the guys who program the radios so any band/mode issues can be aired out as part of the process.
It should also include things like patching, sharing phone numbers between dispatch centers, and each agency having a pretty good idea what capabilities each has.
Trunking gets sticky, but it's possible. Having interop talkgroups shared with other agencies is a good idea. Having inter system links setup so radios can roam on to others when necessary is a good idea. Having the ability to patch trunked talkgroups into interop conventional repeaters is a good idea.
What I have found, in my past 35+ years of public safety comm's and coordinating with other system managers, is for us the most efficient management of interoperability resources reside at the County level. Our local trunked systems have enough capacity to have at least a zone of 16 talk-groups shared with as many public safety agencies as possible that provide direct access for the field. The State of Florida system, while currently a propriety EDACS system, doesn't have that kind of capacity and only outdoor portable coverage even if it was a P25 standard to make it usable and predictable.
When I left PBC I had on the roster over 60 agencies that we were interoperable with, and that included outside of the County with Broward SO/FR, Martin County SO/FR, the Broward municipalities on the boarder (Coconut Creek, Margate, Coral Springs, etc.) and numerous Federal agencies completely cross-programmed. Before PBSO and PBCFR starting absorbing local agencies I had over 70 on the list and a subscriber count of around 25K.
For agencies coming in from outside our geographical borders regional 7TAC's and 8TAC's are available until a decision is made to bring them onto the system.
When I left PBC I had on the roster over 60 agencies that we were interoperable with, and that included outside of the County with Broward SO/FR, Martin County SO/FR, the Broward municipalities on the boarder (Coconut Creek, Margate, Coral Springs, etc.) and numerous Federal agencies completely cross-programmed. Before PBSO and PBCFR starting absorbing local agencies I had over 70 on the list and a subscriber count of around 25K.
For agencies coming in from outside our geographical borders regional 7TAC's and 8TAC's are available until a decision is made to bring them onto the system.
nd5y
Member
Many states have a web page for the SWIC or equivalent and publish state interoperability plans.
Having the full NIFOG suite of channels, plus local and regional talkgroups programmed is one thing, but getting the person on the business end of the PTT and channel selector to actually understand and use these resources is entirely different.
Firefighters generally seem to be adroit and adaptive to venturing out of their comfort zone, while LEO types usually aren't.
Firefighters generally seem to be adroit and adaptive to venturing out of their comfort zone, while LEO types usually aren't.
Project25_MASTR
Millennial Graying OBT Guy
There is a limited amount of resources you can program into your radio. State agencies in areas where there are multiple P25 systems are currently trying to figure out this issue especially as there is a massive need to standardize on codeplugs for those agencies statewide. For example in Texas there are a handful multi-regional (muli-COG) P25 systems...TxWARN, GATRRS, and LCRA but then there is also a bunch of regional P25 systems like AARRS, HOTRRS, NTIRN, GMRS, LRGVRRS, CBRIN, SETTRS, CVCOG and then a bunch of countywide/municipal systems like Lubbock, Abilene, DFW Airport, Wise County, Wichita Falls, El Paso, Tyler, etc. What you end up seeing is you basically have room for a zone or two of 15 channels for every system which may not cover everything a state agency may actually need.
I've gone into a little detail of the zone loadouts on the codeplugs for my counties (I'm a sub-regional system manager meaning I manage within a larger region/COG but work for a handful of counties) and what we are starting to migrate to is a pyramid type plan where we have local day to day stuff, sub-regional interoperability, regional interoperability and then system wide interoperability. So we patch the incident talk group to the next step up to contain the incident. So if I have an incident involving multiple counties, the originating agency's dispatcher patches the active talkgroup with the first available sub-regional interop talkgroup. Initial responders remain on the original talkgroup and the new incoming responders use the interop group. From there it scales up to regional and then systemwide depending on the size of the incident. By the time we've made the transition from sub-region to regional response though...we've already stood up a ROC with a COM Unit and the SOC is on standby to be activated. Of course, getting this pyramid structure took a who regional interoperability planning group being formed for this purpose.
Of course there is the standard band dependent NIFOG stuff and we still fight battles with VHF versus 7/800 areas and finding the right balance of multiband versus single band versus single band with LTE-M which is actually a pretty great combo for VHF portables as LTE-M coverage in the 7/800 MHz areas tends to be as good as 7/800 MHz portable simply due to the population density of those areas.
I've gone into a little detail of the zone loadouts on the codeplugs for my counties (I'm a sub-regional system manager meaning I manage within a larger region/COG but work for a handful of counties) and what we are starting to migrate to is a pyramid type plan where we have local day to day stuff, sub-regional interoperability, regional interoperability and then system wide interoperability. So we patch the incident talk group to the next step up to contain the incident. So if I have an incident involving multiple counties, the originating agency's dispatcher patches the active talkgroup with the first available sub-regional interop talkgroup. Initial responders remain on the original talkgroup and the new incoming responders use the interop group. From there it scales up to regional and then systemwide depending on the size of the incident. By the time we've made the transition from sub-region to regional response though...we've already stood up a ROC with a COM Unit and the SOC is on standby to be activated. Of course, getting this pyramid structure took a who regional interoperability planning group being formed for this purpose.
Of course there is the standard band dependent NIFOG stuff and we still fight battles with VHF versus 7/800 areas and finding the right balance of multiband versus single band versus single band with LTE-M which is actually a pretty great combo for VHF portables as LTE-M coverage in the 7/800 MHz areas tends to be as good as 7/800 MHz portable simply due to the population density of those areas.
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