What I've learned after 26 days as a ham...

[kayn1n32008]

I got one of those 'ccr dmr' toy radios --- no repeaters here and the hotspots cost more than the radio

So you went and bought a junk radio, that soundsike junk, that did a digital voice mode there were no repeaters around to use, and a hot-spot, that arguably has poor audio characteristics, audio holes and poor performance if not set up correctly.

I was not impressed.

I'm not surprised
Buy cheap, get cheap performance.

 

[kayn1n32008]

While the audio on DMR is quite poor setting up a hotspot does not need to be expensive. Search for "MMDVM hat" should find them for less then $40 USD. You would also need a Raspberry Pi Zero but they are not expensive and have a thousand other uses in the shack. That's what I did and other then the poor audio it worked great and was a fun project. I don't use DMR much anymore but it can be a good option for hams with no local repeaters.

While an MMDVN is a good option, because DMR is a narrow band protocol, the MMDVM needs to be used with a properly aligned radio, and level setting need to be carefully set. Not something you do by 'ear'

 

[dkcorlfla]

While an MMDVN is a good option, because DMR is a narrow band protocol, the MMDVM needs to be used with a properly aligned radio, and level setting need to be carefully set. Not something you do by 'ear'

The MMDVM I used came with a low power transmitter. They are notorious for being off a bit but I was able to get mine to work fine simply by using a SDR to double check the frequencies on the MMDVM and the HT. Adding a little correction until the error rate dropped into the green.

 

[KE9BXE]

I do like the MMDVM recommendations above. I think the fastest way to attract "new hams" is to get an adequate $199 or more DMR HT and a MMDVM setup. All-in, for $300-$400 someone can talk to those far-off HF-range people around the world in a faux-authentic sort of way using brandmeister, it's a pretty cool taste of ham without much financial commitment.

For me personally, I like my little HT and I think I'm going to get a couple 70cm/2m mobiles for vehicles to use on the roads. For me, that's enough. My HF itch gets scratched with brandmeister, absent of the need for me to build a shack, good antenna, and have a base station HF setup. (at least for now)

A lot of people warned how "hard" DMR is and yes it is daunting to learn from zero, but in my experience its really the CPS SW and codeplug development that causes the heartburn. $25 to RT systems for a good CPS and a reasonable "Crib sheet" of where to get codeplug data would have trimmed dozens of hours off my learning curve.

Just a quirky thing I notice about ham technology is how things are described is different. It starts with the technology sans-application and spouts data points, whereas the rest of the tech universe talks about the "solution", "use case", or the "application of tech to a problem". It's a very engineering-centric way to describing tech focused on specs rather than what it accomplishes.

It all points to ham being a very sophisticated, technical engineer community with a lot of prior experience talking to one another from a common level of knowledge. Us new guys aren't there yet so following along is sometimes hard.

If I was king of ham for just one day, here's the edicts I would pass down to make things go a LOT smoother:

1.) All CPS sw deserves $1 of R&D to auto-update talk-groups and digital IDs automagically so they can be pushed to the radios without any further thought.

2.) Just like IEEE specs, we'd issue RFCs (Request for Comments - also known as guidelines and best practices) so people can point to an official naming convention, numbering, ordering, or lingo...or not. (voluntary standards)

3.) We'd hire that kid from 1995 that invented "clippy the MS office paperclip" and the CPS software would ask "what do you want to do" so it could have simple workflows to complete all steps without forgetting you have to jiggle 8 toggles to do something simple like a roam/scan list.

4.) Lastly, we'd sit around a campfire at the end of that day burning the designers of most CPS at the stake for literally the worst basic coding practices that have been adopted in all fields, worldwide, since about 1990.

I would then relinquish the crown as your ham dictator for the day.

 

[kayn1n32008]

A lot of people warned how "hard" DMR is and yes it is daunting to learn from zero, but in my experience its really the CPS SW and codeplug development that causes the heartburn. $25 to RT systems for a good CPS and a reasonable "Crib sheet" of where to get codeplug data would have trimmed dozens of hours off my learning curve.

While there is a learning curve, it's a curve because it is a lot different than what the average ham, that has zero exposure to the concepts of LMR programming, has experienced.

I've used Vertex Standard, Icom, Kenwood and various flavours of Motorola CPS for years.

Each company uses a different approach. Motorola, used different approaches to different series of radios.

It was a a learning curve for me to program DMR. My first radio was a CS700. I had to have a friend that worked in the LMR world to give me a quick step by step. Eventually I acquired 1st and 2nd gen Motorola subscribers, then an Anytone portable.

I took the time to learn how to build my own codeplug. I downloaded a random codeplug as an example of how it all fits together, and applied those concepts to build my own specific codeplug from scratch. It was well worth the effort.

If I was king of ham for just one day, here's the edicts I would pass down to make things go a LOT smoother:

I mean, what you think should be done, is far different than what I think would make things smoother.

Frankly, I'd get rid of 'common' code plugs and make anyone that wants to get into DMR actually learn how to program, rather than spoon feed a pre made codeplug they just have to change a RID. I would also force hams learn how to Google, or use a site's search function to search for the information they seak, before they start the millionth thread asking asking how to program a CCR DMR radio.

Ultimately, it would make for more competent operators.

 

[AC9KH]

I got my technicians license on the 14th and my amateur extra on the 24th of last month. The first week or so was playing around with Baofengs and learning that very little VHF/UHF exists in my area and very few repeaters are reachable via a HT. So then I pivoted to a DMR HT, an Anytone 878. That is a learning curve!

Since you have an Extra license, why are you not getting into HF? It's where most of the activity is in ham radio. Clubs and their repeaters networked over the internet, HT's and yadda yadda is kinda bottom-of-the-barrel stuff IMO. If you like messing with software and computers maybe get into SDR's and HF digital modes, something a little more challenging.

 

[a727469]

Once again initially it depends on why a person wants a license. Originally I thought I woukd get one to:
1. Communicate on local repeaters which were quite active when I started. Now, repeaters in my area are pretty dead and mostly old guys(I am one) talking about the weather. Maybe it is different in other areas of the country. For some, GMRS and FRS are adequate. While some of the digital formats are interesting, but, as others have stated, without some standards, we are left with at least 3 choices and none are super active and my time with DMR has taught me that complexity does not equal increased on air usage and to some hams, just frustration.

2. Work with local hams especially in emergency communications. For awhile this was interesting but then became somewhat political and others seemed interested most in impressing with their equipment and how good they were.

3. Accomplish something by the study necessary to obtain the license and prove to myself I could do it. I did feel good about the test etc but found I had no interest in code, HF or contesting etc so did no more study. For fun I know hams that enjoy code, and that is great, but for any type of advanced license it made no sense since it died long ago as a necessary communication form.

4. Learn from fellow hams and expand my radio knowledge. Yes, to a limited degree when they stopped trying to impress and make you feel like their “better” licenses were the only “real” hams. I realize many are not like this but there are enough to be a pain.

I certainly do not want this to discourage people from the hobby, but one must really analyze the individual need since so many things these days in radio and electronics can be done without a license. I know many will disagree and I greatly respect anyone who takes the time and effort, but those who have not gone in this direction can still find satisfaction and happiness without a license.

 

[Grounded]

One thing you will learn is that radio amateurs are often older men with outdated views. DEI is not a member of ham radio.

 

[K6GBW]

There can't be anything "outdated" about a view. If one has the view it is current.

 

[KE9BXE]

Once again initially it depends on why a person wants a license. Originally I thought I woukd get one to:
1. Communicate on local repeaters which were quite active when I started. Now, repeaters in my area are pretty dead and mostly old guys(I am one) talking about the weather. Maybe it is different in other areas of the country. For some, GMRS and FRS are adequate. While some of the digital formats are interesting, but, as others have stated, without some standards, we are left with at least 3 choices and none are super active and my time with DMR has taught me that complexity does not equal increased on air usage and to some hams, just frustration.

2. Work with local hams especially in emergency communications. For awhile this was interesting but then became somewhat political and others seemed interested most in impressing with their equipment and how good they were.

3. Accomplish something by the study necessary to obtain the license and prove to myself I could do it. I did feel good about the test etc but found I had no interest in code, HF or contesting etc so did no more study. For fun I know hams that enjoy code, and that is great, but for any type of advanced license it made no sense since it died long ago as a necessary communication form.

4. Learn from fellow hams and expand my radio knowledge. Yes, to a limited degree when they stopped trying to impress and make you feel like their “better” licenses were the only “real” hams. I realize many are not like this but there are enough to be a pain.

I certainly do not want this to discourage people from the hobby, but one must really analyze the individual need since so many things these days in radio and electronics can be done without a license. I know many will disagree and I greatly respect anyone who takes the time and effort, but those who have not gone in this direction can still find satisfaction and happiness without a license.

I had some similar goals when I started, I have some of those goals at present too. I‘m a bit disenfranchised with Brandmeister though so my goals probably need changing. I can’t believe we have 1500+ dead talk groups and one (91 worldwide) overused talk group to fight over. I’d have thought there would be some rules (e.g. don’t make in-country contact on an international channel) and separation/duplication of the handful of popular channels so they weren’t so congested.

For a technical discipline, there sure is a lot of disorder and melancholy in its implementation. I’m still navigating it and trying to find my niche that has some structure within ham.

 

[Grounded]

For a technical discipline, there sure is a lot of disorder and melancholy in its implementation.

That is why it is referred to as CB radio or amateur radio. DMR and P25 are designated for commercial users with professionals managing the networks and equipment.

 

[dkcorlfla]

I do like the MMDVM recommendations above. I think the fastest way to attract "new hams" is to get an adequate $199 or more DMR HT and a MMDVM setup. All-in, for $300-$400 someone can talk to those far-off HF-range people around the world in a faux-authentic sort of way using brandmeister, it's a pretty cool taste of ham without much financial commitment.

For me personally, I like my little HT and I think I'm going to get a couple 70cm/2m mobiles for vehicles to use on the roads. For me, that's enough. My HF itch gets scratched with brandmeister, absent of the need for me to build a shack, good antenna, and have a base station HF setup. (at least for now)

Something else you might want to look into is the East Coast Reflector. They use Allstarlink nodes and plain analog FM transceivers. The audio is excellent with the radios being less expensive but the nodes cost more then the MMDVM. It's is even possible to access the ECR using a ham shack hotline VOIP phone. Check them out and note the morning brew that starts at 7:00 AM ECT week days is huge and very busy with hams from all over the US, Canada and other parts of the world checking in.

 

[K9KLC]

Frankly, I'd get rid of 'common' code plugs and make anyone that wants to get into DMR actually learn how to program, rather than spoon feed a pre made codeplug they just have to change a RID. I would also force hams learn how to Google, or use a site's search function to search for the information they seak, before they start the millionth thread asking asking how to program a CCR DMR radio.

Ultimately, it would make for more competent operators.

Yes, it would help if we had a few "more competent operators". Ham radio was never a hobby designed for everyone even though it's basically become, just that.

 

[K9KLC]

There can't be anything "outdated" about a view. If one has the view it is current.

Just as the OP has stated "personally" what he's happy with for now, I can assure you, it's not the views of many of the new hams our club is involved with. The "internet HF" is cool to some and again, if I was confined to a nursing home with no hope of even dangling a wire outside, MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, I'd consider doing it again for myself rather than to help others. I am very thankful the "older men and women" in our club do NOT think that way and when the kids ask, we guide them on any front they wish to pursue. Most recently after their teacher fought and clawed for it, we were able to arrange for the kids to have a scheduled session with the ISS, including a personal appearance by a former astronaut during this event. Frankly it was a great event. These kids are already studying for their upgrades to pursue other activities on HF (the real HF) and several already have radios and are building antenna's to get out there and get on the air.
If DMR hotspots are your thing that's great, if FT8 is your thing that's great, but many new hams could care less about the internet modes. (or at least that's been my experience)

 

[ecps92]

for the OP and others who are interested, my local club just started up an ELMER forum via Zoom

https://mmra.org/elmerforum/elmerforum.pdf

 

[GlobalNorth]

One thing you will learn is that radio amateurs are often older men with outdated views. DEI is not a member of ham radio.

Generalize much?

DEI? Generalization and stereotyping are the antithesis of the claimed goals of DEI.

Your assertion has become reductio ad absurdum

 

[a727469]

That is why it is referred to as CB radio or amateur radio. DMR and P25 are designated for commercial users with professionals managing the networks and equipment.

Are you saying hams are not “professional” enough to use dmr or p25? I assume not. Any form of radio should not be categorized as belonging to a certain type of user only. While there are primary uses of certain types, I believe this is too broad a statement. See my next post.

 

[a727469]

One thing you will learn is that radio amateurs are often older men with outdated views. DEI is not a member of ham radio.

As has been stated by others, I too dislike any kind of generalization about any group.
What is an “older” man?
What is outdated?
What about the many new women and young people joining the hobby?
What does DEI have to do with it?
I am sorry you feel this way. Not to go too far off topic, but the last thing a new ham needs is to be told what you said.

 

[kayn1n32008]

I can’t believe we have 1500+ dead talk groups and one (91 worldwide) overused talk group to fight over.

World wide DMR is a cesspool of idiocy and ignorant operators. I can't even remember the last time I had a decent conversation with someone.

This is also why I only have the local talkgroup, 2 province wide talkgroups and Canada wide. I have zero use for the any of the world wide talkgroups. Those and the TAC talkgroups were deleted long ago. No Ragrets.

It's also why I don't download the RID database. Zero use for it.

 

[kayn1n32008]

Yes, it would help if we had a few "more competent operators". Ham radio was never a hobby designed for everyone even though it's basically become, just that.

Welcome to the result of the desire to bring more people into the hobby by dumbing it down to the point someone with a single digit IQ can cram a weekend and do a multiple guess exam.

That and the removal of any sort of financial barrier to entry.

We now have barely literate people buying **** $20 baofengs, begging to get a pre-built codeplug because they can't can't bothered to actually learn how a radio works and learn how to program it.