What to monitor (federally) in a cyber conflict.

[ecps92]

You might want to try SEARCH vs relying on what may or may not have been added or even updated in the RRDB
138-144/148-150.800/162-174/380-400/400-420

Hey, all I can do is download what's on RR and it's all analog for anything Fed or military.

 

[drdispatch]

Ok, let's expand the conversation a little.....
My county & I guess the whole state now uses the APCO P25 trunk system. Are the portable & mobile radios able to communicate directly to each other or do they have to go through a tower that may be compromised from a cyber pandemic?

The state system should (if they were smart when they set it up) have the national interop channels programmed into all the radios. They are analog, and there are repeater pairs, but there are also simplex talk-arounds. (8CALL90, 8TAC91, 8TAC92, 8TAC93 in the 800 mHz band.)

 

[drdispatch]

My reasoning for this question is I'm figuring a tower, repeater etc, probably has an internet connection so it can be monitored & adjusted remotely. And with what's rumored about a cyber war with Russia, it may get infected. Cyber folks & hackers will tell you that once a virus is sent, there's no knowing where else it'll go.

Some systems don't use the internet; The sites are connected via their own microwave backbone.

 

[W7FDX]

Ok, let's expand the conversation a little.....
My county & I guess the whole state now uses the APCO P25 trunk system. Are the portable & mobile radios able to communicate directly to each other or do they have to go through a tower that may be compromised from a cyber pandemic?

Usually they do have a few simplex frequencies programmed in just in case of a system failure, surveillance ops or they're out of range of the system.

 

[captainmax1]

Our emergency net down here has all communication options available for any emergency that may come up. We have learned a lot from hurricane season every year.

 

[Ravenfalls]

Usually they do have a few simplex frequencies programmed in just in case of a system failure, surveillance ops or they're out of range of the system.

Yes, simplex is usually encrypted depending on area. The repeaters which are a backup to the system are usually never known & encrypted - depending on area. The repeater frequency uses the normal issued pairs for trunking which is why it's difficult to find as they are never used due to system reliability.
Spend time listening to all Freq for CW.

For the interop, V Tac, Utac, 7tac, 7law, 7fire, 8 Tac etc, etc are all authorized for encryption usage. This rule started in 2021. In Phoenix federal users started using ENC in 2021 on VHF interop.

 

[W7FDX]

Yes, simplex is usually encrypted depending on area. The repeaters which are a backup to the system are usually never known & encrypted - depending on area. The repeater frequency uses the normal issued pairs for trunking which is why it's difficult to find as they are never used due to system reliability.
Spend time listening to all Freq for CW.

For the interop, V Tac, Utac, 7tac, 7law, 7fire, 8 Tac etc, etc are all authorized for encryption usage. This rule started in 2021. In Phoenix federal users started using ENC in 2021 on VHF interop.

I thought encryption was only authorized on the 700MHz channels because the others are supposed to be analog only?

 

[Ravenfalls]

As of 2021 it changed in NIFOG by DHS

 

[ecps92]

what changed ?
It would help to quote the post you are replying to, for context

As of 2021 it changed in NIFOG by DHS

 

[nd5y]

According to 90.20(i) and 90.553 encryption is allowed on all interoperability channels except the national calling channels.

 

[Spleen]

Federal Register :: Request Access

Federal Register :: Request Access

 

[es93546]

Federal Register :: Request Access

Federal Register :: Request Access

Thanks for the links. The first one showed something I've never seen before, mutual aid tactical frequencies in the 220.0000 MHz range. I don't think these are in the NIFOG. Does anyone have additional info on this?

 

[nd5y]

Thanks for the links. The first one showed something I've never seen before, mutual aid tactical frequencies in the 220.0000 MHz range. I don't think these are in the NIFOG. Does anyone have additional info on this?

The 220 MHz frequencies are not in the NIFOG and probably not used in very many places.

Federal Register :: Request Access

The band plan is

220-222 MHz Band Plan - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

Note that Phase I and Phase II refer to license application dates and have absolutely nothing to do with P25.

FCC web page on 220 MHz services

220 MHz Services

About Rule Part 47 C.F.R, Part 90

www.fcc.gov

 

[Thunderknight]

According to 90.20(i) and 90.553 encryption is allowed on all interoperability channels except the national calling channels.

Note that 90.553 only applies to 700 MHZ. and all of the 700 IO must be P25.

VHF, UHF, 800 IO channels have to be analog. That’s from a 2016 Report and Order.

 

[es93546]

The 220 MHz frequencies are not in the NIFOG and probably not used in very many places.

Federal Register :: Request Access

The band plan is

220-222 MHz Band Plan - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

Note that Phase I and Phase II refer to license application dates and have absolutely nothing to do with P25.

FCC web page on 220 MHz services

220 MHz Services

About Rule Part 47 C.F.R, Part 90

www.fcc.gov

I wouldn't think 220-222 capable radios would be common in public safety. Use of them would likely require radios from an emergency cache as I doubt there are many public agencies with radios using this band. These frequencies are those (minus the narrowbanding) taken away from the amateur allocations in the United Parcel Service situation back in the 1980's or 1990's.

I'm not sure if I'm going to program these into my mutual aid scanner banks. I reserve one bank for all mutual aid frequencies so that if I'm near a disaster I can just turn that bank on. I have the entire NIFOG series of frequencies in that bank plus any the state has allocated for disasters. I also have banks for "Federal Large Fire" and "State Large Fire" for the same purposes. The latter being in my California programs only. In other states the number of state large fire frequencies is low so I just lump those in with the federal and call it "Large Fire."

 

[ecps92]

You are best advised to go into Search mode, vs relying on what is or is not in the RRDB as it relates to FEDS

Hey, all I can do is download what's on RR and it's all analog for anything Fed or military.

 

[es93546]

Note that 90.553 only applies to 700 MHZ. and all of the 700 IO must be P25.

VHF, UHF, 800 IO channels have to be analog. That’s from a 2016 Report and Order.

Thanks for that clarification, it is a rather important distinction.

 

[Ravenfalls]

Note that 90.553 only applies to 700 MHZ. and all of the 700 IO must be P25.

VHF, UHF, 800 IO channels have to be analog. That’s from a 2016 Report and Order.

Look @ the 2021 release & you find P25 in VHF, UHF & 700

 

[jeepsandradios]

Look @ the 2021 release & you find P25 in VHF, UHF & 700

What 2021 release are you talking about ? In the NIFOG 2.0 that was released last year it clearly states under VTAC -
A uthorized emission – 11K0F3E (2.5 kHz deviation narrowband A nalog FM) – 47 CFR §90.20 (d )(8 0 ) - Encryption may not be used – 47 CFR §90.2 0 (i )

UTAC has same notes.

Do you mean some other channels ?

 

[bearcatrp]

You are best advised to go into Search mode, vs relying on what is or is not in the RRDB as it relates to FEDS

Best advise right here!