Why all the encryption of MN ARMER?

[RONALDPURDUE]

Have anybody noticed the all the uneccesary encyption of the Rochester/Olmsted county ARMER TRS system? The man at the Rochester RADIO SHACK store said it is only for drug raids/apprehension of drug criminals. That is not the case! They use the encryption for ALL the information for only the media but not the general public! This must be stopped once and for all! Anybody in the Rochester area have any ideas? I am upset over this encryption nonsense on 800 mhz TRS of Minnesota ARMER!

 

[43g70]

This is has been discussed before, not in Minnesota but in general.

http://www.radioreference.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51908&highlight=Secret+Police

The link above is the thread.

43g70

 

[mmtstc]

Rochester is differnt kind of beast as far as encyrption in minnesota goes, but as the billboard for Think Credit union up on broadway and 37th says, Rochester = Smart.

I think Encryption is initaited appropriately down here, but there are some definite issues. My biggest issue occurs when dispatch goes to ENC for an event and neglects to go back into the clear after the cessation of the event. Olmsted county seems to be one of the most prevalent users of encryption throught my travels of Minnesota, but maybe they have it figured out. Encryption is a very effective tool seeing as how the digital scanners are coming down in price and it provides officers some peace of mind when they step into a potentially violent situation, that they might indeed have the element of suprise.

When i worked in St. Cloud, one of my coworkers was a Meeker County deputy who almost fell prey to a system that operated in the clear in that a suspect who was violent and in a standoff sitation was known to have a scanner in his residence and knew full well of what radio traffic was occuring, so he went to the only form of encryption he had, a cell phone.

Olmsted County has plenty of active TG's that operate in the clear at all times like RST LEC 2, Fire TG's Gold Cross's MEDUPDATE and the IEMSR TG. Plus all of the Conventional Traffic and sometimes i have found RACOM's EDACS to be quite interesting.

So as a public servant myself in Roch, I fully support their use of encryption when it is warranted and i think that as other areas see the efficacy of encryption in gaining an upper hand, they will also follow suit. It is a real inconvenience to us who enjoy listening in to what they are doing, but i would rather be inconvenienced than attend a fellow public servants funeral.

 

[NeFire242]

dead horse

 

[mmtstc]

I dont know how much a dead horse this is, I think Roch is very different than what ,most other MN scanner listeners are used to hearing and it is not a boundary that many of us are used to.

 

[MMIC]

There is a VERY cheap form of encryption available from Motorola, called Advanced Digital Privacy, that costs somewhere in the neighborhood of $15 per radio (when purchased as a feature with a brand new radio from the factory) that can make encrypting talk groups very easy and very cheap. I would be willing to bet that the deployment of ADP is what you are seeing, and will probably be a growing trend.

 

[NeFire242]

There is no valid reason not to be encrypted full time.

 

[mmtstc]

ADP is not what they are using on this system, this is the DES Style Encryption. Rochester Police and Olmsetd County Deputies all carry XTS5k's and the only reason you would spend all of the extra money on a XTS5k over a XTS2500 is for the provision of DES encryption on the 800 Digital Trunking System. I have not lived in Rochester long enough to know if they used any encryption when they were still on VHF, but all LEO's in Olmsted are encryption capable except for State Smokies.

There definetly isnt any reason to be encypted full time on a dispatch TG and alot of people in the metro are used to having specific TG's that are encypted and the main dispatch TG's operating in the "clear". the O,msted LEC Dispatch isnt in ENC mode full time, it is (typically) only when they have an event in progress that it is needed. The only exception is when a dispatcher forgets to return the TG to "clear" mode, but it is typically corrected when an new officer comes on duty who has their portable set to "clear" traffic and alerts dispatch that they are in ENC mode.

 

[10-95]

There is no valid reason not to be encrypted full time.

Bottom line is this, it's a police agency, they owe you nothing, they can run it encrypted all they want.

 

[MMIC]

Rochester Police and Olmsetd County Deputies all carry XTS5k's and the only reason you would spend all of the extra money on a XTS5k over a XTS2500 is for the provision of DES encryption on the 800 Digital Trunking System.

You can get DES encryption in XTS-2500s. Initially, you could not, but you can now and have been for about a year. Additionally, ADP was available in the XTS-5000s a couple of years before it was available in the XTS-2500s. Plus, ADP is a lot less expensive than DES - especially when you're considering putting it in every radio that you have. I would be willing to bet that any Motorola user that goes full time encryption is ADP. Places can hardly afford Motorola equipment alone, much less their proud price for a FIPS encryption scheme in a radio.

Not that it really matters, but it's still possible that it's ADP, unless someone has some inside information to say that it's not.

 

[10-95]

You can get DES encryption in XTS-2500s. Initially, you could not, but you can now and have been for about a year. Additionally, ADP was available in the XTS-5000s a couple of years before it was available in the XTS-2500s. Plus, ADP is a lot less expensive than DES - especially when you're considering putting it in every radio that you have. I would be willing to bet that any Motorola user that goes full time encryption is ADP. Places can hardly afford Motorola equipment alone, much less their proud price for a FIPS encryption scheme in a radio.

Not that it really matters, but it's still possible that it's ADP, unless someone has some inside information to say that it's not.

If they have the money to buy XTS5000's then they probably bought a UCM for DES-OFB with them. They probably bought the radios with grant money anyway.

 

[mmtstc]

They just went digital within the last year. They are part of the most recent buildout of ARMER. From how i understand it, DES is the standard form of encryption for ARMER since you could have agencies that interop in encrypted mode. Much of these radios for the ARMER system have been purchesd through HRSA, DHS and other grants so the departments are only footing about half of the bill for these radios.

 

[mod4]

Rochester

Just thinking of purchasing a new scanner, had old scanner and just got the "bug". Reading this should this discourage me from investing in a new scanner given their costs? thanks

 

[mmtstc]

I wouldnt say that it should discourage. I would estimate that Olmsted County operates in the "clear" about 95-98% of the time. it is just that little bit that annoys some people. i had my radio on all day while iw as working and i think i heard maybe 2 transmissions that were ENC, and it was a very busy day for all 3 branches of public safety down here. Anyways, i cant recall the last time i heaard EMS or Fire operate in any form of encrypted mode.

 

[mikeh]

hay scanner most PD are now running some encryption
and most fire department are in the clear that the way it is now
live with it

 

[mod4]

Thanks mmtstc for your reply...appreciate your time.