Why do you all enjoy using DMR?

[popnokick]

Since this thread is in the "Digital Voice for Amateur Use" forum here on RR, I think the subject line of the thread is referring to DMR usage within Amateur Radio operations... not business or commercial usage. Yes, DMR... like P25 and NXDN... was originally designed for commercial usage and adapted for Amateur Radio use by hams. It contains features and benefits useful to commercial radio users but usually seldom applied to ham usage. There are however some very powerful capabilities that DO apply to ham use (e.g. the two-slot talkgroup on a single freq design). DMR adaptation by hams from the original design for commercial usage makes it very different from the Amateur Radio purpose-built protocols D-STAR and Fusion (Yaesu). I see this as the usual vision and resourcefulness and "let's make it work or redesign it" that hams bring to the hobby. I remember when the only way to get onto 2 Meter FM was by retuning and repurposing commercial FM radios (Motorola, GE, etc) for ham use. That fine tradition of adaptation continues to this day... with DMR being another good example of "how it's done" by hams.

 

[BMDaug]

Since this thread is in the "Digital Voice for Amateur Use" forum here on RR, I think the subject line of the thread is referring to DMR usage within Amateur Radio operations... not business or commercial usage. Yes, DMR... like P25 and NXDN... was originally designed for commercial usage and adapted for Amateur Radio use by hams. It contains features and benefits useful to commercial radio users but usually seldom applied to ham usage. There are however some very powerful capabilities that DO apply to ham use (e.g. the two-slot talkgroup on a single freq design). DMR adaptation by hams from the original design for commercial usage makes it very different from the Amateur Radio purpose-built protocols D-STAR and Fusion (Yaesu). I see this as the usual vision and resourcefulness and "let's make it work or redesign it" that hams bring to the hobby. I remember when the only way to get onto 2 Meter FM was by retuning and repurposing commercial FM radios (Motorola, GE, etc) for ham use. That fine tradition of adaptation continues to this day... with DMR being another good example of "how it's done" by hams.

Ya but the spirit of the thread (I think), and the idea that many are defending is whether or not HOTSPOTS are real ham radio, which they certainly are. Nobody is questioning whether DMR counts as actual radio, regardless of the use case. DMR is a proven standard in digital radio. Most people here are making points that relate to using DMR in conjunction with a hotspot. In fact, I think you’re the first person to bring up technical aspects like two voice channels per frequency in the entire 11 page thread! That’s a solid answer to the posed question. I just don’t want people to use ‘DMR’ too generally here… Before you know it, the rhetoric will be ‘I plug my DMR into my network to connect to BrandMeister’.

Even BM doesn’t use the term DMR in their documentation unless perhaps in an example. BM is all about talkgroups, which can connect to a hotspot, which can operate in almost any mode! That’s why I think the answer to the question is really ‘I use DMR instead of IRPL, NXDN, P25, Fusion, or D-Star because DMR radios are inexpensive and plentiful. This lets me leverage the DMR feature set, such as ID alias to display my callsign and TDMA, which effectively allows my hotspot to provide my radio with two talk groups using a single transmitter’.

Once you start saying things like ‘DMR let’s me talk around the world without a large investment in equipment’, you’re potentially confusing people. That’s my point! I’m not arguing against anyone, but it’s important to properly what DMR is and is not, especially for newcomers.

-B

 

[popnokick]

In fact, I think you’re the first person to bring up technical aspects like two voice channels per frequency in the entire 11 page thread!

And is often the case with these long mega-threads we have now come full circle in repetition. The two-slot design of DMR was first mentioned in post #12 by sallen07. Very few people want to read every message in the thread when there are this many. And now we've "been there, done that" in this thread.

 

[BMDaug]

@popnokick I have read every post, but that was weeks ago! I still think you’re missing my point. Most people here aren’t discussing the merits of DMR as a digital radio standard, they are discussing how DMR is convenient for people that live in apartments, and for people on a budget that still want to communicate long distances. Meanwhile, people that don’t like hotspots are arguing that DMR isn’t real ham radio…

Have you read the OP? He’s likening DMR to
Zoom and talking about monitoring the BM servers, none of which actually has anything to do with DMR. Can you see where I’m going now?

DMR is a digitally transmitted communication medium - and so in many ways more similar to Whatsapp, Zoom, Skype etc. etc. vs. being a ham radio (unless a local, range limited contact is established)

This statement is confusing DMR with HOTSPOTS, or at least heavily blurring the line between them. Even though DMR is frequently used in conjunction with a hotspot, it’s not the only mode a hotspot supports and many (such as myself) use a hotspot with a variety of other modes. Go back and read the OP. I’m just trying to make sure newcomers aren’t confused.

-B

 

[AK9R]

It contains features and benefits useful to commercial radio users but usually seldom applied to ham usage.

Likewise, DMR does not have the one, single feature that I think would have made it more adaptable to use in amateur radio. That being a means for carrying a callsign in the over-the-air data. Yes, hams have adapted DMR to amateur radio by implementing "look-up tables" in their radios that correlate a DMR ID with a callsign. While the FCC has accepted this means of identification and I don't dispute the FCC's position on this, it seems a little like a "Band-Aid" to me when modes that were designed for amateur radio, such as D-STAR and Yaesu System Fusion, transmit actual callsigns in their OTA data.

The other aspect of digital voice that intrigues me is the possibility of carrying data. D-STAR was designed from the ground up to carry "low-speed" data on voice channels and "high-speed" data on data channels. Likewise, YSF was designed to carry data, but Yaesu and its user community haven't seemed to develop this feature into something any more useful than low-res images. I'm told that DMR can carry data, too, and we now have radios that can send the radio's position in the voice channel, ala APRS. Can DMR carry more data than just a short packet?

In the end, it comes down to what do you want to do.

Do you want to talk to your friends all within a radius of 10-40 miles? Just about any analog voice FM 2m repeater can do that (based on my experience in the flatlands of the central US).

Do you want to talk to friends across an entire state the size of 25,000 to 75,000 square miles? Analog voice HF radio with suitable antennas is one option. A system of linked FM repeaters using over-the-air RF linking is another option. A system of linked VOIP repeaters designed for VHF/UHF user radios that are analog voice FM (Allstar, Echolink, IRLP) or digital voice (DMR, D-STAR, NXDN, P25, YSF) is another option.

Do you want to make "DX" contacts with people anywhere in the world? I think my previous answer applies, though the HF antennas might be different.

So, given these options, why do you enjoy using DMR? I'm specifically asking about DMR. What is it about DMR that you like over any of the other options?

 

[AK9R]

Have you read the OP?

Worth noting that the OP started this thread in October 15, 2021 and hasn't logged into the forums since October 24, 2021.

Maybe we are all just beating a dead horse and the OP has long since found an answer to his/her question.

 

[AE4NG]

To answer the original question… I enjoy using DMR because it has many great aspects ( 2 voice paths or slots allowing two simultaneous conversations on a single repeater, forward error correction unlike DStar and system fusion, the ability to use local repeaters and an HT to communicate worldwide using internet linking…just to name a few).

With that said, may I add that while I am an extra class licensee I have neither the budget or real estate to put up an HF station. While I enjoy working HF when I can (such as field day or using a friends station), I feel that DMR gives a chance to experience worldwide communications with a much smaller budget and no need for a big antenna or expensive HF gear.

I’ll leave it at that. 73!

 

[BMDaug]

To answer the original question… I enjoy using DMR because it has many great aspects ( 2 voice paths or slots allowing two simultaneous conversations on a single repeater, forward error correction unlike DStar and system fusion, the ability to use local repeaters and an HT to communicate worldwide using internet linking…just to name a few).

With that said, may I add that while I am an extra class licensee I have neither the budget or real estate to put up an HF station. While I enjoy working HF when I can (such as field day or using a friends station), I feel that DMR gives a chance to experience worldwide communications with a much smaller budget and no need for a big antenna or expensive HF gear.

I’ll leave it at that. 73!

If you like operating HF, you should check out some remote HF services like “Remote Ham Radio”. It’s like $100 a year to join and then there are airtime fees depending on the station location, power, etc., but you get to use big power and nice antennas that you can control from your browser or even your phone. You can actually get on the air faster than setting up a hotspot from scratch.

Those stations can work FT-8 so you get digital modes and HF, all from the comfort of your 3rd story apartment or your favorite coffee shop. It’s pretty cool!

-B

Edit: So I guess I confused threads here. Sorry. There’s a very similar discussion about what digital mode(s) will survive and I didn’t read the thread title before responding. My bad!

 

[vagrant]

Regardless of mode, or method, using the Internet can “enhance” amateur radio. It does not negate it. The hobby does not need curmudgeons bashing operators that try something that is outside the realm of what they themselves have used.

 

[K5MPH]

Regardless of mode, or method, using the Internet can “enhance” amateur radio. It does not negate it. The hobby does not need curmudgeons bashing operators that try something that is outside the realm of what they themselves have used.

I agree to me if its using ham radio frequency and a ham radio up or down stream of the system then its ham radio..............

 

[Spankymedic7]

"Too many guys getting a woody talking to someone in another country when actually they are talking 3 feet to a hotspot, & the internet does the rest. ZERO accomplishment in that."

"And the people who must have a radio that holds every DMR contact on planet earth are too funny."

I'm sorry, but when Echo Link first became a "thing" in the 90s, I thought that was the neatest thing I had done up until that point. Not only because I was speaking to someone in Europe via my HT, but because of the technology that allowed me to do it. Is there any "accomplishment" in that? Not on my end, no. But why criticize people and make snide remarks about their "woodies" if that's what they enjoy? I happen to enjoy it...any snide comments for me?

As for the contact list...again, if that's what people choose, then why not? Why are they "too funny"? I happen to have "every DMR contact on the planet". So what of it? Consider it a "caller ID".

 

[Spankymedic7]

"Is that not what a cellphone is for???"

Then by all means...use your cellphone. We'll use radio.

 

[Spankymedic7]

"But you must admit the draw for “most“ towards DMR is the ability for Johnny in Florida to talk to Mike in California or Dave in New York to talk to Akihito in Japan with minimal effort and pretend it was via RF, because they did it with a radio."


I don't have to admit anything...I think you're making assumptions here. I don't think anyone would deny the fact that just because it was done with a radio, it was done with RF. And what's wrong with the allure of speaking to people around the country via digital means? I happen to enjoy it myself.

 

[Spankymedic7]

"Yeah, but that would actually require some effort..like having to study, learn and earn something. These days, that’s asking too much OM."

Whoa there, cowboy. You assume way too much.

 

[N4KVE]

"Too many guys getting a woody talking to someone in another country when actually they are talking 3 feet to a hotspot, & the internet does the rest. ZERO accomplishment in that."

"And the people who must have a radio that holds every DMR contact on planet earth are too funny."

Exactly. I say this every day. Sure it’s a convenient way to talk to my buds back home in Florida when I’m in Canada, but it’s not any form of accomplishment worth getting excited over. I quit putting new contacts in my radio eight years ago as I recognize the voices of people I speak to. So I use DMR mostly every day to speak to people in Palm Beach, & surrounding counties.

 

[bill4long]

I've been a ham for 41 years. I've basically "done it all". I use Internet linked comms (DMR, Allstar, Fusion, IRLP) not because of any challenge (as if challenge is the only reason to use ham radio), but because I enjoy ragchewing more than anything else about ham radio, and those provide ample opportunity to ragchew and make friends with other hams.

Find what you like and do it. Let others do the same and try not to be a judgmental Adam Henry.

 

[mitbr]

I've been a ham for 41 years. I've basically "done it all". I use Internet linked comms (DMR, Allstar, Fusion, IRLP) not because of any challenge (as if challenge is the only reason to use ham radio), but because I enjoy ragchewing more than anything else about ham radio, and those provide ample opportunity to ragchew and make friends with other hams.

Find what you like and do it. Let others do the same and try not to be a judgmental Adam Henry.

^^^^^^This^^^^^^
Tim

 

[bharvey2]

I've been a ham for 41 years. I've basically "done it all". I use Internet linked comms (DMR, Allstar, Fusion, IRLP) not because of any challenge (as if challenge is the only reason to use ham radio), but because I enjoy ragchewing more than anything else about ham radio, and those provide ample opportunity to ragchew and make friends with other hams.

Find what you like and do it. Let others do the same and try not to be a judgmental Adam Henry.

Exactly, it's a hobby. I never understood why some people get so worked up into a frenzy over what mode or hardware another guy or gal is using. Unless of course, @#$%^& about it is YOUR hobby.

If kind of reminds me of a quote that I believe is attributed to Oscar Wilde: "The definition of a puritan is a person with the nagging fear that someone, somewhere, is having a good time.."

 

[mtindor]

I'm bored and I'm just responding to the title of the thread. I don't enjoy DMR, never did. I think the audio is garbage on all amateur and commercial equipment. I don't like listening to it. And, even though I shouldn't say it because it ruffles feathers, if you aren't talking to the people you want to talk to over RF, then it aint ham radio. A "BO-FANG" in your basement connected to a hotspot talking to jerkys all around the world isn't radio.

With that said, if there was an actual amateur radio DMR repeater within range of me, I'd use it. I wouldn't think of getting a hotspot to talk on some goofy network.

 

[K7MFC]

lol ham radio is probably the silliest thing to be an elitist about.