Why does the ICom IC-R9500 have video-out disabled?

Status
Not open for further replies.

KE7IZL

Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2011
Messages
187
Location
Seattle, WA
"If a police officer becomes aware that you are in possession of a cell-band capable scanner, bla, bla bla" he can do nothing about it because he cannot enforce the federal communications law. I just asked two of my law enforcement friends what they would do about a device that could receive cell phones and they basically laughed a me. One said "If you brought me one and demonstrated it I wouldn't care nor do anything because I have no jurisdiction and no time to play games with stupid radio geeks. Bring me an actual crime and then we'll talk".

So, its not your local police that would do anything about it. A judge will not grant a search warrant based on possession of a modified scanner and I'll bet you a new Icom R-9500 on that. I've even hand delivered an unblocked receiver to the mfr for service and they worked on it and handed it back with no problems. There are even unblocked scanners on the RR swap as I write this and who really cares? There are also probably tens of thousands if not more unblocked scanners and receivers in the US, can you find me one case where someone, anyone has had one confiscated or has been prosecuted? So who is it that's going to confiscate your unblocked receiver or charge you with a crime? And please don't just make up some BS as in the last post. I'm also surprised you would modify an R-9500 or similar to get the analog TV video working. That must have been disabled due to an FCC mandate and if you modify it back something really bad could happen to you ....
prcguy


Maybe I was mistaken about the police officer, because that's a local jurisdiction. However the FBI are in charge of enforcing federal law. So replace every instance of my use of the word "police" in my post, with the word "FBI", and my post then IS correct. The fact is, it is a CRIME to in any way shape or form acquire an unblocked scanner, UNLESS you have government authorization to own such a scanner. And since it is a crime, you most certainly CAN be arrested, charged, and tried for it.

As for the R9500 TV thing, that's not the same issue. It didn't need to have TV disabled anyway. ICom may have thought it did, but there's no FCC rule that would have required them to disable the analog TV reception. The FCC rule is that a television (as in a standard TV that you can buy at any store) must have digital reception ability, and not be analog only. R9500 is not a dedicated TV receiver, and therefore it doesn't fall under this FCC rule. Proof of that, is the fact that AOR actually makes wideband scanners that have the ability to receive analog TV signals and output a composite video signal. If it was illegal, AOR (a well known company) would not have included this feature in any of its radios. So modding the R9500 to get analog TV reception would not be a crime, but modding it to enable cell-band reception would be a crime.
 
Last edited:

dkf435

Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2006
Messages
738
Location
Sweet Home/Foster OR
ICom (and any legitimate company) will not sell unblocked receivers to anybody in the US who's not specifically permitted to have them (government, military, law enforcement, or any other individual who's received authorization from somebody who is legally allowed to give such authorization), and you need to provide paperwork to prove that you are permitted to use such a device. It would be a crime for a radio receiver manufacturer to sell such a receiver to somebody who's not permitted to buy one.

On the buyer's side, it is a crime to purchase any radio that by design or by modification, is able to receive in the cellphone bands. It does not matter if the radio is being purchased from a person or company, whether it is being bought from an entity selling it in the US or imported from an entity selling it from outside the US, nor whether it was originally manufactured in the US or elsewhere. It doesn't even matter if you purchased it while in a foreign country on vacation, where it happened to be legal, in which case it is a crime to bring the device back into the US when you return from your vacation. In such a situation, you must leave your device overseas when you return to the US (or else have it modified by a technician to have cell bands blocked, prior to returning to the US). Also doesn't matter if it's an actual sale (money is exchanged) or if it is given to you by somebody (money is not exchanged). If anybody transfers ownership of such a scanner to you, both people (you and the person transferring ownership of it to you) have committed a crime.

If you already own a legal receiver, it is a crime to modify it to receive the cell-bands. There is absolutely NO LEGAL WAY to acquire a cell-band capable receiver if you live in the US. Therefore mere possession of such a device is PROOF that a crime has taken place. While possession itself is technically not a crime, it is evidence that a crime has taken place. If a police officer becomes aware that you are in possession of a cell-band capable scanner, he can't arrest you, as possession is not illegal, but it is absolute proof that a crime has most certainly taken place. The police officer can than inform a judge of your possession of this device, as probable cause for a search warrant. The judge in this situation will most certainly grant the officer the warrant, and with that he can confiscate your illegal scanner, look up the serial number of it, find out who sold it, and once that has been determined, the officer has enough evidence to prove the specific crime in court. You will be charged with acquiring an illegal scanner, and the owner store that sold it will be charged with selling an illegal scanner. If it wasn't sold but given to you by somebody, the police detectives will be able to find this out, and arrest and charge both you and the person who gave it to you. If it is determined that you modified the scanner, you will be charged with illegally modifying the scanner.

The RARE exception to a non-government entity owning a cell-band capable scanner legally, is if that entity (such as a security company, such as those security contractor companies you hear about on the news) was doing work for the government and such a scanner was necessary for performing the duty assigned to them by the government.

And don't think that just because the FCC (rather than congress) came up with these rules, that they aren't enforceable. When a government department (such as FCC) is created by an act of congress, any rules/regulations that such a department creates have FORCE OF LAW, just as if they were laws passed by congress. I stay away from unblocked scanners as if they were the PLAGUE itself. Last thing I need is to get a criminal record, and since the crime in question involves radio equipment (though not ham radio equipment) it is VERY likely that the FCC would punish me, by revoking my ham radio license (in addition to me having a prison sentence, the punishment that the court would give me).

Better double check some things you say. Have AR3000 AR3000A IC-R7100A IC- R1A all unblocked unmodified stock condition from factory from normal dealer stock legally acquired.

Another reason for restrictions on receivers and TV decoders is taxes or licensing for the consumer reception part in some countries.

David Kb7uns
 

KE7IZL

Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2011
Messages
187
Location
Seattle, WA
Better double check some things you say. Have AR3000 AR3000A IC-R7100A IC- R1A all unblocked unmodified stock condition from factory from normal dealer stock legally acquired.

Another reason for restrictions on receivers and TV decoders is taxes or licensing for the consumer reception part in some countries.

David Kb7uns

If you are in the US you can't get "unblocked unmodified stock condition from factory from normal dealer stock legally acquired" receivers, so I assume that when you got these, you were in a different country.

The US doesn't have taxes or licenses for consumer TV reception. The UK does, but this R9500 has its TV receiver disabled only in the US, not in the UK. So it's not a taxing or licensing issue. And furthermore, AOR does NOT have its TV reception disabled in the US version. So it's clearly a misinterpretation of the law by ICom's.
 

prcguy

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jun 30, 2006
Messages
16,876
Location
So Cal - Richardson, TX - Tewksbury, MA
I say get whatever receiver fits your needs be it blocked or unblocked and enjoy it. Nobody will come to your door, nobody enforces the stupid rule, nobody cares.
prcguy

If you are in the US you can't get "unblocked unmodified stock condition from factory from normal dealer stock legally acquired" receivers, so I assume that when you got these, you were in a different country.

The US doesn't have taxes or licenses for consumer TV reception. The UK does, but this R9500 has its TV receiver disabled only in the US, not in the UK. So it's not a taxing or licensing issue. And furthermore, AOR does NOT have its TV reception disabled in the US version. So it's clearly a misinterpretation of the law by ICom's.
 

Token

Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2010
Messages
2,446
Location
Mojave Desert, California, USA
On the buyer's side, it is a crime to purchase any radio that by design or by modification, is able to receive in the cellphone bands. It does not matter if the radio is being purchased from a person or company, whether it is being bought from an entity selling it in the US or imported from an entity selling it from outside the US, nor whether it was originally manufactured in the US or elsewhere.

Please quote which specific law or regulation is being violated by a private party selling a cell frequency enabled receiver to another private party.

For example, I own a couple of Icom R-7000 receivers, they are not cell blocked and there was no requirement for them to be when they were new. I know of no law that prevents me from selling them to my buddy Rob if I want to, or preventing him from buying them from me.

Now, I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice, but the way I understand it the new sale / import radio laws are specific to “scanning receivers” or “scanner” and not just any radio. The definition of a scanner, per the FCC (http://transition.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Engineering_Technology/Public_Notices/1997/da971440.txt ), is “Scanners are radio receivers that can automatically switch between four or more frequencies anywhere in the frequency range of 30-960 MHz.” This definition of a scanner is probably why such things as spectrum analyzers, communication service monitors, various SDRs, etc, are allowed to be imported and sold, brand new (assuming they are Part 15 certified), despite having these frequencies and being able to demodulate them.

I stay away from unblocked scanners as if they were the PLAGUE itself. Last thing I need is to get a criminal record, and since the crime in question involves radio equipment (though not ham radio equipment) it is VERY likely that the FCC would punish me, by revoking my ham radio license (in addition to me having a prison sentence, the punishment that the court would give me).

I don’t understand this attitude as I don’t believe ownership, in and of itself, of such receivers is a crime.

Further, prior to 1997 I don’t believe it was illegal for private parties to modify receivers for cell coverage, although it was illegal to import or offer for sale new receivers with such capability.

T!
 

dkf435

Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2006
Messages
738
Location
Sweet Home/Foster OR
If you are in the US you can't get "unblocked unmodified stock condition from factory from normal dealer stock legally acquired" receivers, so I assume that when you got these, you were in a different country.

The US doesn't have taxes or licenses for consumer TV reception. The UK does, but this R9500 has its TV receiver disabled only in the US, not in the UK. So it's not a taxing or licensing issue. And furthermore, AOR does NOT have its TV reception disabled in the US version. So it's clearly a misinterpretation of the law by ICom's.

Wrong again.


Oh yeah forgot to add one IC-R7000A

David Kb7uns
 

KE7IZL

Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2011
Messages
187
Location
Seattle, WA
Well, I did have an Anritsu spectrum analyzer with AM/FM/SSB demod that went to 20GHz.

Sorry to get back to you so late about this, but what was the model number of this device? That's some impressive capability it has, based on your description.
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Messages
7,577
There is actually a logical explanation, and this is thefact that the FCC required television receivers produced and sold after a certain date were required to have a DTV decoder. Icom's receiver lacl tgat function, and therefore the analog TV mode could not be marketed.
 

prcguy

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jun 30, 2006
Messages
16,876
Location
So Cal - Richardson, TX - Tewksbury, MA
It was an Antitsu Spectrum Master MS2724C, covers 9KHz to 20GHz continuous with unblocked AM/FM/SSB reception out of the box. I had to do a job last month for the company I retired from and now they have the 40GHz version of the same thing.
prcguy

Sorry to get back to you so late about this, but what was the model number of this device? That's some impressive capability it has, based on your description.
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Messages
7,577
It was an Antitsu Spectrum Master MS2724C, covers 9KHz to 20GHz continuous with unblocked AM/FM/SSB reception out of the box. I had to do a job last month for the company I retired from and now they have the 40GHz version of the same thing.
prcguy

I used one of those for capturing various PCS band cellular signal levels when surveying a hospital for a DAS/BDA system. Very impressive device.
 

prcguy

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jun 30, 2006
Messages
16,876
Location
So Cal - Richardson, TX - Tewksbury, MA
I've used HP/Agilent most of my carer and the Anritsu seemed to be the best portable at the time I bought it. Since then I've used the Keysight FieldFox series and I'm blown away every time I play with it. Beautiful spectrum analyzer that will do just about anything the older HP 8563 portable would do but in a tiny little package. Plus it has built in full 2 port VNA, power meter and other goodies.

To stay with this thread the FieldFox also has AM/FM demod and is not cellular blocked right out of the box.
prcguy

I used one of those for capturing various PCS band cellular signal levels when surveying a hospital for a DAS/BDA system. Very impressive device.
 

MStep

Member
Joined
May 2, 2005
Messages
2,187
Location
New York City
I Must Have Missed Something

I owned the AOR DV1 with the cellular band unblocked for about a month. Heard nothing there but a few beeps and boops and some occasional noise. I ended up trading it in from the DV1 U.S. version (cellular blocked), when I found out the AOR's U.S. facility in Torrance CA would not do any work (warranty or out-of-warranty) on a non-U.S. version.

Is the actually anything worth listening to on those blocked cellular frequencies? Or is there just some "mystic" attached to owning a receiver capable of cellular coverage?

As a side note, I am patiently waiting for the arrival of the Icom R8600. I've owned MANY Icom receivers in the past, and they seldom disappoint. Wondering how it will fare against my DV1.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top