Will Nextel ever become reality?

[scanman310]

I would like to know if the scanner community will ever be able to hear Nextel 2-way. If not, why?
Thanks in advance.
Matt

 

[N4DES]

iDEN is a proprietary Motorola protocol, so simply the answer is no.

In addition iDEN would be protected under the "cellular scanning laws" so
even if it was available the scanner mnfgs. wouldn't be allowed to program
in the capability.

 

[N_Jay]

iDEN is a proprietary Motorola protocol, so simply the answer is no.

In addition iDEN would be protected under the "cellular scanning laws" so
even if it was available the scanner mnfgs. wouldn't be allowed to program
in the capability.

NEXTEL (as of today) is NOT in the cellular band and is not protected by law. :roll:

iDEN is proprietary and would create a challenge to decode legally (patent wise).

Nextel's Iden network is cellular in structure so IF you could listen to it you would not hear whole conversations, (probably be pissed off about that, and return the scanner for a refund) (not a great business decision for the scanner Mfg.) :evil:

 

[N4DES]

The FCC considered NEXTEL a cellular carrier in all of the re-banding proceeding and in their E911 requirements. If they weren't considered a cellular carrier they wouldn't have been required to install GPS receivers in all of their phones and wouldn't have recently requested a delay to get to the 90% penetration of GPS capable phones.

Just because they are classified an ESMR doesn't mean that they are removed from the cellular requirements because they are providing a wireless PTSN interconnect to to the general public under their FCC licenses in a cellularized configuration.

 

[rescue161]

Just to add onto what KS4VT is saying...

Just because it isn't in the so called "cellular" band does not make it legal to monitor. It is illegal to monitor phone calls no matter what frequency they are on. This includes cell (old style), cordless (46 MHz, 900 MHz, etc) and so on.

Last I checked, the cordless phone frequencies are still included in scanner too, but it still isn't legal to monitor them.

 

[N_Jay]

The FCC considered NEXTEL a cellular carrier in all of the re-banding proceeding and in their E911 requirements. If they weren't considered a cellular carrier they wouldn't have been required to install GPS receivers in all of their phones and wouldn't have recently requested a delay to get to the 90% penetration of GPS capable phones.

Just because they are classified an ESMR doesn't mean that they are removed from the cellular requirements because they are providing a wireless PTSN interconnect to to the general public under their FCC licenses in a cellularized configuration.

We will see after rebanding.

As of now, I know of no knowledgeable source that sees it your way (with regard to Cellular frequency restrictions).

Edit:
I am speaking of the legality of building, selling, etc., not the legality of listening. :wink:

 

[scanman310]

Sorry guys, didn't mean to spark a debate! I was just trying to decide if holding out for a scanner with that capability was a good idea. I guess not. Even if it does become available, from what you guys are saying, sounds like it will be a long time. Thanks for the info guys!
Matt

 

[N4DES]

By the time any of the scanner mnfg's have the ability to put it in iDEN will be long gone.
Sprint/NEXTEL is only going to support it to 2010 and then they will have their customers on CDMA. They keep talking about selling it to the Fed's for interoperability but that is a pipe dream
and whole other topic.

 

[N4DES]

We will see after rebanding.

As of now, I know of no knowledgeable source that sees it your way (with regard to Cellular frequency restrictions).

Edit:
I am speaking of the legality of building, selling, etc., not the legality of listening. :wink:

I'll see if I can find the FCC meeting notes on their website where they classified them as a cellular cariier. You know how much stuff they posted on the re-banding proceedings so it will take a while to find. You can be sure that once the re-banding is done they are going to petition the FCC to create a new cellular block. That way they don't have to spend so much in site licensing.

I know what you mean in the Edit....not a prob.

 

[N_Jay]

I'll see if I can find the FCC meeting notes on their website where they classified them as a cellular cariier. You know how much stuff they posted on the re-banding proceedings so it will take a while to find. You can be sure that once the re-banding is done they are going to petition the FCC to create a new cellular block. That way they don't have to spend so much in site licensing.

I know what you mean in the Edit....not a prob.

I would not go by the terms used in FCC meeting notes. :evil:

Until it turns into a Part 22 band and not a part 90 band, I would say the old "Cellular band" prohibition would not apply. :roll:

Just look at the PCS band. It is just like cellular and has never been added to that old law.

 

[N_Jay]

By the time any of the scanner mnfg's have the ability to put it in iDEN will be long gone.
Sprint/NEXTEL is only going to support it to 2010 and then they will have their customers on CDMA. They keep talking about selling it to the Fed's for interoperability but that is a pipe dream
and whole other topic.

I would not count on a fast transition.

Look at the ATT and Cingular TDMA service.
Look at the old analog service.

It will be years after they stop selling phones before they shut the service off, and they are still selling phones. Heck, they are still developing NEW phones.

 

[scanman310]

You guys are talking about "re-banding" 800MHz. What does it involve how does it make a difference with a scanner? Is it just step size? Do I have to buy another scanner just to keep up?
Matt

 

[WayneH]

You guys are talking about "re-banding" 800MHz. What does it involve how does it make a difference with a scanner? Is it just step size? Do I have to buy another scanner just to keep up?
Matt

Matt, click "Search" up at the top and typing in rebanding. You'll get your questions answered.

As to the original topic, currently there is no law keeping someone from listening in on group, individual or TELEPHONE INTERCONNECT calls. The Telecom Privacy Act does not apply and would not hold up in court. iDEN offers full duplex telephone interconnect. It may seem like cellular to some folks but the architecture involved, how it operates, and the licensing for frequencies is all land mobile radio through and through. The requirement to include location based 911 calling information does not make it an equivalent to cellular and PCS.

The term cellular is often used as it makes things easier to understand for those who are not technically minded.

Post-rebanding things can definitely change. If the network is sold off for Homeland Security/Military/Whatever use I'm sure it will become unlawful quick. Definitely a pipedream though. Many years for Sprint to change their mind.

-Wayne

 

[n4voxgill]

In reading the federal law, i do not find the word cellular, nor the mention of specific frequencies as being part of what is prohibited. The basic law is as follows:

U.S. Code collectionmain page faq search



TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 119 > § 2511 Prev | Next

§ 2511. Interception and disclosure of wire, oral, or electronic communications prohibited


Release date: 2005-08-03

(1) Except as otherwise specifically provided in this chapter any person who— (a) intentionally intercepts, endeavors to intercept, or procures any other person to intercept or endeavor to intercept, any wire, oral, or electronic communication;

 

[N_Jay]

Matt, click "Search" up at the top and typing in rebanding. You'll get your questions answered.

That is if you use the lower of the two "Search" buttons! :wink:

 

[N_Jay]

In reading the federal law, i do not find the word cellular, nor the mention of specific frequencies as being part of what is prohibited. The basic law is as follows:

U.S. Code collectionmain page faq search



TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 119 > § 2511 Prev | Next

§ 2511. Interception and disclosure of wire, oral, or electronic communications prohibited


Release date: 2005-08-03

(1) Except as otherwise specifically provided in this chapter any person who— (a) intentionally intercepts, endeavors to intercept, or procures any other person to intercept or endeavor to intercept, any wire, oral, or electronic communication;

OK, now find the law on the prohibition of selling a receiver capable of the cellular band.

 

[scanman310]

Wayne,
Thanks for the "link" to the rebanding. It looks as though I have a lot of reading to do! Just took a quick peek and from the looks of it, this has been covered time and time again. (Sorry)
Thanks to all for the input on the Nextel 2-way question. You guys rock!
Matt

 

[Al42]

(1) Except as otherwise specifically provided in this chapter any person who— (a) intentionally intercepts, endeavors to intercept, or procures any other person to intercept or endeavor to intercept, any wire, oral, or electronic communication;

Read that way it makes "intercepting" any transmitted communication - radio and tv included - illegal. And, if there's no exemption, you can't, as a ham, listen to the guy who's talking to you.

In fact, if you read this post, you're "intercepting" an "electronic communication", so you're violating 18, I, 119, 2511, 1, a. Even if you're not using a radio or a computer - listening to someone speak is "intercepting" an oral communication. I doubt that any judge would read the law that way, since it would be illegal for him to "intercept" the prosecutor's reading of the charge against you.

If you don't read it that way, it prohibits trying to intercept telephone conversations - "telephone" as understood by the common Luddi^H^H^Hperson.

 

[blinddog50]

Sad, whatever happened to the BS line that the airwaves belong to the people.

As Kramer said "Who's going to watch the watchers".

Excuse the small rant.

 

[n4voxgill]

the way some people read things into simple statements amazes me. Laws that prohibit activites have nothing to do with requirements for type acceptance for equipment. This is as bad as the stupid arguments about turn indicators in Michigan.