WISCOM (2010)

[ScanWI]

The Juneau County Simulcast system is C4FM Simulcast not LSM/CQPSK. Simulcast eliminates the need for radios to roam between tower providing better coverage overall to a particular area. This way you get true overlap and robust coverage without the radio having to move between control channels.

There are no changes needed from the radios standpoint in order for users to affiliate with the new system. You may have noticed that the Reedsburg site is not longer listed, this is due to the fact that the site has been made apart of the Simulcast system, using those control channels.

Not all radios have to be programed to accept either C4FM or LSM/CQPSK some figure it out on their own, which in my opinion is a much better way to go.

I believe WSP decided to go this route since there are going to be doing software upgrades to the system statewide. This will only affect one site at a time, however I think the State Patrol just wanted to move them off while he changes are being made so they don't start getting a bunch of coverage complaints.

I was only commenting on the fact that WISCOM "launched" more than 2 years ago, and the supposed anchor tenant is still not using the system on a regular basis,

This is largely a result of issues with the Kewood Radios, the radios that the State Patrol use have been sent in numerous times to have hardware changes and Firmware changes so they will properly roam on the system.

 

[JT-112]

C4FM simulcast in the wild! That's the first I've heard it being deployed, cool.

Any reports on how it sounds/decodes?

 

[ScanWI]

I am within range of it an my HP-1, 996xt, and PRO-197 decode it very well. The audio for the most part sounds great, but it sounds like they are still tweaking the voting settings.

 

[4006]

Not sure how to parse this comment - are you saying you're hearing rumors outside of RR, or are you commenting on some of the recent posts in this thread? Your second sentence seems to indicate the latter, but I'm not sure.

It wasn't directed exactly at you, but rather the the last several posts in general from people drinking the rumor mill Kool-aid.

WSP isn't an anchor tenant of WISCOM. Does WSP need to support it since they are responsible for maintaining the state-owned part of it? Yes, they do. However, WSP isn't WISCOM and WISCOM isn't WSP. The radio system supports far more users than WSP, even when they are on it full time.

As mentioned, a lot of WSP's issue is equipment they own that makes their life in a trunking environment difficult. Over time and state budgets, I have no doubt that this will be resolved.

Time will tell how the Juneau County C4FM simulcast goes, and if it continues to prove itself I wouldn't be surprised to see more of it on the system.

 

[ozzie]

Does the WSP have a specific NAC for the Wiscom system?

 

[sfd119]

Hearing these on WISCOM but all are VHF rebroadcast. Eau Claire Post running an air detail on VHF. Wausau Post on VHF. Nothing heard for Spooner Post.

Spooner post was on TG157, haven't heard anything recently but I've been busy most of the weekend and not really watching the WISCOM system.

In case this was directed at me - I was only commenting on the fact that WISCOM "launched" more than 2 years ago, and the supposed anchor tenant is still not using the system on a regular basis, and in fact is postponing use for another 6 weeks (which I'm guessing is a minimum). Overall, there appears to be precious little usage outside of isolated pockets - that's an observation from my listening plus what I read here - I certainly don't roam the state freely on a regular basis.

Sawyer County is using it full time, other than some coverage issues, it's working pretty good for them. Dougals County is next.

Does the WSP have a specific NAC for the Wiscom system?

There's no "NAC" for the WISCOM system with the WSP. They do have TGs (talkgroups). Check out the database for that info.

 

[box23]

Time will tell how the Juneau County C4FM simulcast goes, and if it continues to prove itself I wouldn't be surprised to see more of it on the system.

Considering C4FM Simulcast is EFJ's sandbox, I would personally be very surprised to see CQPSK used anywhere in the system.

In case this was directed at me - I was only commenting on the fact that WISCOM "launched" more than 2 years ago, and the supposed anchor tenant is still not using the system on a regular basis, and in fact is postponing use for another 6 weeks (which I'm guessing is a minimum). Overall, there appears to be precious little usage outside of isolated pockets - that's an observation from my listening plus what I read here - I certainly don't roam the state freely on a regular basis.

There was never a specific agency that the system was built for. From the very beginning it was designed as a statewide system for all agencies to use for mutual aid and other interoperable events, with the added benefit of specifically allowing agencies to move to it full-time without a requirement to abandon existing systems as has been done elsewhere.

Listening to the system from the Milwaukee area really only provides a very small view of the system. There is a lot more traffic on the system than you would believe. You should get out more, it's a big State.

I also wouldn't put a whole lot of faith in everything being posted here. We used the system this weekend to support medical communications for a mountain bike race at this end of the State and nobody mentioned it yet.

So let's assume (yes, I know) that they're using CPQSK for the Juneau portion of the system. That means they'd have to get every mobile and portable re-programmed from C4FM receive to CPQSK receive - it can't be done over-the-air (OTAR) Given the nature of having to do this to a fairly large number of cruisers, I can see the six week timeframe being reasonable - troopers from the old D1 and D5 territories, perhaps even D4 would need the work done. I'm also unsure as to the impacts to the rest of the system - it's not clear that you can have a mix of C4FM and CPQSK in a wide-area system like this one.

It's already been pointed out, but you're assuming incorrectly. EFJ is not Motorola, they do things a little differently. Simulcast does not automatically mean CQPSK. Also, OTAR is over the air rekeying, hence the "R". You're meaning to say OTAP.

It's also very clear that you can mix C4FM standalone sites with CQPSK simulcast sites. Minnesota, Michigan, and Illinois, just to name a few, all have statewide systems with such a configuration. Illinois even has some TDMA Phase 2 thrown into the mix.

This is pure speculation on my part, to be clear. Something entirely different could be going on. Perhaps there are more infrastructure changes, maybe the simulcasting still needs work and they're removing the Juneau system from the mobiles and portables.

I wouldn't mind understanding why the Juneau system was made simulcast - were there specific issues in the region, or is it a test being done in a fairly low-usage part of the state? Will there be more simulcast systems set up?

CPQSK/simulcast isn't great for most scanner listeners - if there's more coming, that will be disappointing to many here.

Simply removing a programmed site from a radio will not keep it from affiliating. Read up some more on how P25 Trunking works.

There's a bunch of reasons to create a simulcast site. Better coverage, reduced roaming, reduced frequency count, more predictable scanning, etc.

 

[N9JIG]

I haven't time to go thru 22 pages and over a thousand posts, but I did do a search for this and looked at the data page for WisComm and the Wiki without finding this...

I am hearing WisCom traffic, likely from the Milwaukee site, on 155.730 and 155.565 but it shows a NAC of B0A while the DB shows a NAC of B0C.

Are there multiple NAC's or is my 996XT flaking out? Would it matter that I am listening in conventional mode, not trunked?

 

[ScanWI]

Some towers have a unique NAC the Control Channel tells the radio which one to use. This is to reduce interference from other sites that are using the same frequencies. If there was a VHF band opening and the NAC were all the same the user could experience some issues.

The system as a whole will be B0C but the individual sites may spite out B07, B02, B04, or B0A etc.

 

[melvin1987]

Conventional Scanning

I haven't time to go thru 22 pages and over a thousand posts, but I did do a search for this and looked at the data page for WisComm and the Wiki without finding this...

I am hearing WisCom traffic, likely from the Milwaukee site, on 155.730 and 155.565 but it shows a NAC of B0A while the DB shows a NAC of B0C.

Are there multiple NAC's or is my 996XT flaking out? Would it matter that I am listening in conventional mode, not trunked?

I am also hearing WisCom traffic, from Green site 154.9350, Waukesha site 154.9050 and Racine site 155.4450. All of which are also utilized WSP's Fond Du Lac Post, Wausau & Tomah posts as their conventional VHF dispatch freqs. Using the F7E NAC I was able to scan these in mixed mode without any problems.

 

[jpjohn]

WSP Eau Claire Post was put on all WISCOM today and told not to use MDC's but rather run all traffic stops thru dispatch. I heard this on TG 105 around noon. Radio tech said system performed excellent and sounded like the old days because of all the radio traffic. It was this way most of morning and afternoon.

EC Post was also running an air detail this afternoon on TG 152.

All heard off Osseo tower. In my house in EC I'm still not able to pick up WISCOM activity on portable scanner but reception is better outside of house.

A lot of testing on TG 105 the past couple of days.

 

[sjgostovich]

Was EC post WSP still patched with thier analog channel?

 

[jpjohn]

Prior to this EC Post was almost all WISCOM. All of the interstate sectors cars were WISCOM however the non I cars had some not in range or bad comms so the were about half and half

Sounded today like they were "all" on WISCOM. But work got in the way of me listening all the time!!

 

[mkescan]

Oak Creek plans for switching to WISCOM starts on page 4 http://www.oakcreekwi.org/images/agenda-minutes/100714_Council_Packet.pdf

 

[Tim]

Greetings....

Also, The Milwaukee Secure Detention Facility's site in downtown Milwaukee is now on the air. 851.3625 is the control channel. No traffic was heard yesterday...but today I heard some traffic on Talkgroup 1722 and 1720. I didn't get a chance to listen to the old system to see if its still in use as I was on the fringe of receiving it on the way to work this morning. Will try to later to get a little more information.

Tim

 

[Tim]

Oak Creek plans for switching to WISCOM starts on page 4 http://www.oakcreekwi.org/images/agenda-minutes/100714_Council_Packet.pdf

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Wowsa, where do i even begin with this presentation. I have no financial/work interest in Oak Creek, Milwaukee County or WISCOM, but here are some (many?) inaccuracies.

-- There are only a *few* correctional facilities that are operating on WISCOM. A Majority are still using the analog 800MHz TRS and even some are still on low band. Obviously, everyone who reads these forums know that the WI State Patrol is back on VHF analog and never was entirely on WISCOM (Only few posts).

-- I love how they mention the Sikh Temple shooting and "interoperability problems". They mention switching to WISCOM would help communicate more efficiantly with their neighbors. Isn't nearly all the PD's in Milwaukee County on the County system (Except Greenfield). As for Racine County agencies, WISCOM isn't going to help since they are on VHF analog. The city of Milwaukee police department had a heavy presence at that unfortunate incident and they are on OpenSky.

-- I am curious as to the mention of Bayside being a WISCOM site. They do house a WISCOM site, however tts seems like they are inferring that Bayside is on WISCOM (Which it isn't and I haven't heard plans for them to be). I LOVE how they mention having a "border" with Greenfield who just switched to WISCOM. Technically they do I guess, but they only meet at the intersection of 27th/College (With Greenfield on the NW Corner and Oak Creek on the SE Corner).

They keep mentioning 'improving' interopability for some reason. At least with agencies in Milwaukee and Waukesha county they should have no problem with interoperabilty on the current system (Even with the city of Milwaukee). Not only does Milwaukee have ability to patch to the "County-Wide" talkgroups and "Sheriff's F2"...but they also can use the 8-Tac mutual aid channels (The old I-Call frequencies of 851.0125 / 851.5125 / 852.0125 / Etc).

Again, I am not knocking them going to WISCOM. I just find it odd to be so misleading (Unless they were misled by the vendor).


Tim

 

[ScanWI]

Well there is a lot more to it then what you think.

-DOC is fully migrating to WISCOM, three facilities have new systems and the facilities that already have P25 systems will tied in as WISCOM sites shortly. One more facility is scheduled for a WISCOM site this year. Five additional facilities will be added next year. All transport vehicles are having radios switched out by the end of the year.

- WSP, there was no full cutover due to troopers moving back to conventional due to radio issues. The troopers will be on WISCOM entirely after the entire system is upgraded.

- interoperability, there is a lot more to interop than having everyone on the same system. Waukesha, Milwaukee and Racine Counties, along with the City of Milwaukee can and may have WISCOM interop talk groups in their radios. So yes it will improve interoperability. Patching is always possible but not as reliable.

- If there is a large scale incident a agencies from all over the state can come and assist and as long as they have WISCOM interop talkgroups in their radios they are good to go on the Oak Creek system. They can use a system not just simplex channels, VHF and 800 on the same system.

- I see their biggest advantage is price, which is the main point of the write up. Either way the go they know that they need replace their consoles. Going with the County system it will be out of pocket, with WISCOM it can be covered by the grant. At this time there will be no user fees for them on WISCOM.

 

[N9AME]

Anyone know where one can hear Portage County, Wood and Marathron counties on Wiscom?? they all use to be on the Rib Mountain site but don't hear them any longer also RR shows Portage County on the Oxford site but I have not heard a sound from that site.

 

[ScanWI]

There has been talk of getting rid of the Scan talk groups. As the the new firmware/software gets rolled out they may not be deploying the scan talk groups.

 

[sfd119]

There has been talk of getting rid of the Scan talk groups. As the the new firmware/software gets rolled out they may not be deploying the scan talk groups.

What is the reasoning behind this?