Yea, kinda a mess... Everyone knows that you look eminently cooler if you talk across your mic.
Worcester County
- Thread starter emtLarmy15
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Yea, kinda a mess... Everyone knows that you look eminently cooler if you talk across your mic.
troymail
Silent Key
Just flew/drove in for the weekend -- seeing both FiRST (Berlin/7331) and Worcester (Sheriff/13870) P25 talkgroups on the Ocean City system/sites....
Check the NACs and submit to the RRDB
Also, Wicomico is still not showing any activity other than station IDs, and the Bivalve site is off the air. And the Bivalve tower is taller than the Mystic Harbor tower...
troymail
Silent Key
It's actually interesting ... not sure if this is simply part of testing or long term (like ISSI or something). Recall that at one time, the Worcester and Ocean City EDACS systems were considered two different systems and at some point they were merged as one two-site system.
Now, they are two different systems but linked... and with the statewide talkgroup mapping, the talkgroups are the same on both the primary and foreign system... so, are these really part of the OC system or their home systems?
Effectively, you could potentially see every Worcester talkgroup on the OC system .... and some number of FIRST talkgroups as well.... then there is the reverse.... OC talkgroups (maybe?) at some point on Worcester...
Now, they are two different systems but linked... and with the statewide talkgroup mapping, the talkgroups are the same on both the primary and foreign system... so, are these really part of the OC system or their home systems?
Effectively, you could potentially see every Worcester talkgroup on the OC system .... and some number of FIRST talkgroups as well.... then there is the reverse.... OC talkgroups (maybe?) at some point on Worcester...
troymail
Silent Key
The OC site is showing OC/Ocean Pines and the Worcester system as neighbors and the Worcester County and FiRST talkgroups are appearing like normal talkgroups on the OC system.
emtLarmy15
Member
Just FYI your not seeing a FiRST talkgroup... it’s a Worcester talkgroup patched to FiRST. It was decided to mirror the FiRST talkgroup ID since it’s a patch.
troymail
Silent Key
That one makes sense since there isn't any indication of connectivity to FiRST..... but a little misleading.
Guses we'll start submitting these TG'S to the DB as Ocean City system talkgroups.
Guses we'll start submitting these TG'S to the DB as Ocean City system talkgroups.
emtLarmy15
Member
To the other side of it the OC p25 and Worcester p25 are connected systems and just like in edacs, system managers can dictate what groups can be on each of the sites. Some from each side are restricted to be on their home site (or system) only.
troymail
Silent Key
Gonna be fun for folks to monitor this mess. At times, a Worcester talkgroup appears on the OC simulcast site, sometimes only on the Ocean Pines site, and other times not at all
emtLarmy15
Member
It’s no skin off my back but in reality while they are and can be their own stand alone systems (just as they technically were in EDACS) and do each have their own system ID I am programming them as one system with three sites into my 536 so I don’t have to duplicate everything.
emtLarmy15
Member
The radios can and will roam on and off of sites... just like most every other multi site p25 system. Most groups Are only active on a site when there is a user logged into the talkgroup.
troymail
Silent Key
Apparently, the county commissioners had a follow-up meeting yesterday and are struggling to decide what to do - opted to table a decision on spending the $77k for the consultants for another week - work that will take 90 days once approved/funded
It sounds like there are both interference and coverage issues/concerns.
Giving it more thought, this is sounding more and more like what St. Mary's County went through several years ago (almost) with their Harris system.... They went live with (if I remember correctly) 6 towers in their simulcast system (and dealt with alot of complaints for quite some time) with a plan to build out to 13 (which I believe are all active today).
Worcester is currently 5 only towers with Mystic coming up soon which will make 6. Even with the 4 towers that make up the two sites of Ocean City's system, that's still only 10 towers. Worcester County (695 sq miles) is larger than St. Mary's County (611 sq miles)....
Wait - Ocean City has 4 towers itself and the rest of the county only has 5? Something doesn't sound right.
Sounds like this isn't going to be solved any time soon no matter what they do.
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The Worcester system does not have a site north of the MSP tower in Berlin. One would think.....
Curious if any on the same consultants / vendors were the same between the two systems (St Marys.) I think that the vendor / local distributor is the same for OC and Worcester, and obviously Harris.
Does sound like a mess. I imagine the RF consulting engineers would have to travel to NJ and Tidewater to inspect the interfering systems?
Thanks for the update Troymail!
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Here is a link to information from the meeting (really informative) http://www.co.worcester.md.us/sites...s/Commissioner Meeting/packet/2018/073118.pdf and a link to the video https://worcestercountymd.swagit.com/play/07312018-747
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Here is a link to information from the meeting (really informative) http://www.co.worcester.md.us/sites...s/Commissioner Meeting/packet/2018/073118.pdf and a link to the video https://worcestercountymd.swagit.com/play/07312018-747
Quite a written status report. +1 for the governmental transparency. Seems to assign some responsibility for delays to Harris' partner Eastern Communications, possibly due to the original project manager retiring in January. Seems not to recommend switching to 700 Mhz due to expense and the possibility of continued co-channel interference. Stresses that application for new 800Mhz has a deadline later this August, so tabling may not be a wise choice if not acted upon promptly. I guess I'll have to watch the video.
After watching the almost two hour work session, I think it is fair to characterize the Commissioners as being frustrated and upset with the situation that they find themselves in (which they may have caused by a decision not to hire a system design consultant before contracting with Harris / or even putting the system out for bid.) The Ocean Pines VFD basically said they have no confidence in Harris and the new system in its current state. They further complained about promises that Harris made in an earlier meeting, particularly about new demo subscriber units that have yet to be delivered. One Commissioner was unhappy with the ES staff, and was pressing for them to admit that they "were in over their head." The motion to hire the consulting firm FE(?) was tabled for a week, but based on discussion, they will likely get a contract to (independently) model the final system to determine whether it will be powerful enough to overcome co-channel interference, and to recommend further mitigations including new towers and additional frequencies. I vote to spend the money on the consultant because they clearly need an independent analysis.
In Worcester's August 7th meeting, the Commissioners approved the DES request to hire Federal Engineering to conduct a study to assess the new radio system, and to propose solutions to mitigate coverage and co-channel interference issues users are experiencing. The DES seems convinced that co-channel interference is a major factor in the coverage issues. When weather / temperature conditions are conducive of tropospheric ducting, interfering signals from NJ and Tidewater VA (which share some frequencies with WC,) the issue is most pronounced. CCI was experienced in the old system, but due to the nature of P25 digital communications, messages now are totally blanked out, whereas before, the analog signals mixed and were at least understandable for the most part. Some mitigations might be adjusting antennas, increasing power, adding frequencies, and dynamically assigning frequencies that experience CCI a lower priority in the pool.
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troymail
Silent Key
And from what I recall, Federal now has 90 days to provide a report and recommendations which could range from increasing power on the existing towers to recommending more towers...
Whadya want to bet there will be more towers? I think Harris has already proposed two new towers.... In any event, they have to wait for Nokia to deliver the MW equipment to get the Mystic Harbor site up (but there was something about a temporary solution using existing / borrowed equipment to bring it up earlier for testing.) Anyway, a rush to get it done before the leaves go away. Supposedly, FE can model coverage with fancy software adapted from the DoD. But then again, Harris used their own proprietary software to design the system in the first place.
Does Worcester County / Ocean City operate VRS / DVRS on their fire apparatus or chief's vehicles? That may be one way to mitigate some of the coverage issues they are experiencing.
Separate question: what other jurisdictions in the region operate VRS? The only two that I am aware of are Anne Arundel and Montgomery County.
Separate question: what other jurisdictions in the region operate VRS? The only two that I am aware of are Anne Arundel and Montgomery County.
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