XTL/XTS5000 XTS5000 NAS with different firmware versions

[XTS500]

Hello
sorry to jump in on the thread but figured I'd ask a question since I am having similar issues.
I have two Xts 5k's 700/800 MHz models that I have setup for NAS using the hidden TG method.
I went through all the correct instructions of changing the transmit offsets in case it tried to transmit and so on.
On the one Xts 5000 it has firmware version 12 and operates great by picking up all communications and so forth. It does appear to not affiliate with the system because the red light does not flash at all and all the NAS safety measures were followed.

On the other Xts 5000 it had firmware version 15 and had an exact clone of the code plug on it from the other xts 5k the operates correctly. Every time I went to connect the antenna the red light would start flashing indicating it was trying to affiliate with the system. After trying everything with that radio I figured it might have been a bad radio. So, I was able to exchange it for a new one through the seller that I bought it from. This one also came with firmware version 15 on it and right off the bat it was having the same issues the other one was having with it appearing to attempt to affiliate with the system. So, I was stumped but thought maybe it was the firmware, so I (legally) updated the firmware to version 20, because I was unable to locate a copy of the version 12 firmware like my other xts 5k has. I re cloned the code plug from the other radio and once again even after the firmware update it appeared to try to affiliate with the system because the red light started to flash. After this I decided to try to disable TX by setting the eccentric switch to TX disable. This appears to have stopped it from trying to affiliate with the system, but now I miss a lot of the conversations compared to the other NAS xts 5k running firmware version 12 and my XTS 5k that I am issued through my agency, that is affilated with the system and that I use at work on a daily basis.

Any idea what would cause this and how I can correctly fix the issue while making sure that it is still on NAS. As stated before I am issued a xts 5k through the agency that I work for, with that being said I understand how important it is for unauthorized people to not affiliate their radios with the system, because the last thing I would want is myself or one of my coworkers trying to call for backup or get a hold of dispatch, and them not being heard because someone decided to affiliate their radio onto the system.

 

[rescue161]

I believe the codeplug structure changed at some point. You should probably not clone from a very old firmware revision to a new one. There are zero issues with NAS monitoring with the latest firmware. Go through the codeplug manually and I'm sure you will find the error.

 

[XTS500]

Okay let me explain how I have the code plug configured.

So channel 1-16 are conventional channels that each have a scan list of 10 trk channels attached to them. This allows me to turn the know to get to the scan list that I want to listen to. 17-64 are the trk channels. All these are located on zone 1.
Am I messing something up here. I don’t currently have the other working radio with the older firmware to cross check that it’s set the same.

 

[rescue161]

There is just too much to recreate here. If you did not create the original codeplug that works, I suggest that you find that individual that did it. Otherwise, you have a lot of reading to do.

 

[XTS500]

There is just too much to recreate here. If you did not create the original codeplug that works, I suggest that you find that individual that did it. Otherwise, you have a lot of reading to do.

I did create the original code plug for the other radio that works. It all seems to be the same. The only differences in the firmware. Any ideas

 

[rescue161]

The only thing I can suggest it to start with a single channel, a single scan list and a single talkgroup. Once that works without affiliating, then you can scale it up. There is obviously an error in the codeplug as all versions of firmware work with NAS across Astro, Astro25 & APX platforms of Motorola radios. More than likely, the zone assignment is pointing to a trunked talkgroup for the first 16 positions instead of the conventional personalities.

 

[XTS500]

The only thing I can suggest it to start with a single channel, a single scan list and a single talkgroup. Once that works without affiliating, then you can scale it up. There is obviously an error in the codeplug as all versions of firmware work with NAS across Astro, Astro25 & APX platforms of Motorola radios. More than likely, the zone assignment is pointing to a trunked talkgroup for the first 16 positions instead of the conventional personalities.

Would you be willing to take a look at my codeplug. I looked through it and can’t seem to find anything that would cause it to affiliate.
Thanks

 

[XTS500]

The only thing I can suggest it to start with a single channel, a single scan list and a single talkgroup. Once that works without affiliating, then you can scale it up. There is obviously an error in the codeplug as all versions of firmware work with NAS across Astro, Astro25 & APX platforms of Motorola radios. More than likely, the zone assignment is pointing to a trunked talkgroup for the first 16 positions instead of the conventional personalities.

…. I may have found the issue, and I can’t remember if it’s the same on the other radio or if when I cloned the other one if it messed it up. Because right now the codeplug has 16 conventional channels in zone 1 and then the trk channels 17-64 are also in zone 1.

To insure it doesn’t affiliate the 16 convention channels should be in zone 1.
Then in zone 2 have all the trk channels be located, without having direct access to them.

I can’t remember what way I set it up on the other radio which I don’t currently have with me.

 

[rescue161]

Just put the trunked and conventional into one zone for the 16 channels that you want to monitor. If you want to monitor a different set of 16 channels, then make another zone, but never put the trunking talkgroups in any channel assignment below 17.

 

[XTS500]

Okay than theoretically the codeplug that is on this radio should work without affiliating. I went through the codeplug and did not find anything that would cuase it to affiliate with the system. There are the 16 conventional channels set to receive only, and then 17-64 are the trk talk group channels. The 16 conventional channels each are tied to its own personality, then have a scan list mapped to them and have 16 scan lists. There are 16 conventional personalities eached tied to a different scan list and set to auto scan.

 

[rescue161]

When I set up a NAS radio. I assign a single talkgroup to a single channel, so the radio behaves more like a real radio that is not scanning. It gives me the opportunity to listen to a single talkgroup and only that talkgroup. For the first channel in each zone, I usually set up a that channel to scan several talkgroups. If I decide that I want to monitor traffic that I heard on one of the scanned channels, then I will physically turn to that channel to monitor only that traffic.

I would not like every channel set up to monitor several talkgroups, because if you have 10 channels being scanned on every channel and you hear interesting traffic on say FIRE OPS 1 and you want to hear what else is said on that talkgroup, but during a pause on that talkgroup's traffic, another talkgroup in your scan list becomes active and you hear it instead. There is no way to get back to FIRE OPS 1, so you may miss what you really wanted to hear. You might as well just throw all of the trunking system channels into a bank and just monitor conventionally, since both a random.

 

[rescue161]

So any one zone on one of my NAS radios would look like this.

1 - FIRE SCAN - Conv Pers FIRE SCAN (scans the 15 [trunked] channels in this zone)
2 - FIRE DISP - Conv Pers FIRE DISP (Scans only FIRE DISP [trunked])
3 - FIRE OPS 1 - Conv Pers FIRE OPS 1 (Scans only FIRE OPS 1[trunked])
3-16 other conventional RX-Only channels like above

17 - FIRE DISP - Trunked Pers FIRE DISP
18 - FIRE OPS 1 - Trunked pers FIRE OPS 1
19-31 Other trunked talkgroups

Each zone only has 31 total channels. 16 conventional and 15 trunked. 15 conventional channels will only point to a single trunked channel and one channel (channel 1) will point to all talkgroups in this zone.

 

[XTS500]

So any one zone on one of my NAS radios would look like this.

1 - FIRE SCAN - Conv Pers FIRE SCAN (scans the 15 [trunked] channels in this zone)
2 - FIRE DISP - Conv Pers FIRE DISP (Scans only FIRE DISP [trunked])
3 - FIRE OPS 1 - Conv Pers FIRE OPS 1 (Scans only FIRE OPS 1[trunked])
3-16 other conventional RX-Only channels like above

17 - FIRE DISP - Trunked Pers FIRE DISP
18 - FIRE OPS 1 - Trunked pers FIRE OPS 1
19-31 Other trunked talkgroups

Each zone only has 31 total channels. 16 conventional and 15 trunked. 15 conventional channels will only point to a single trunked channel and one channel (channel 1) will point to all talkgroups in this zone.

Okay, Yeah this is pretty similar to how I have my codeplug configured. Let me ask you this, since I have 64 total channels in zone 1 (16 conventional and 48 trk channels) is that way too many for one zone, should I split it so each zone only has 31 total channels, or does it not matter. As far as I was awhere you can have as many as you'd like in a zone as long as you have them set to channel 17 and above.
What still bugs me is that it tried to affiliate (red led flashed), but once I changed the consentric switch to disable TX, it stopped it from attemping to affiliate (red light did not flash), but seems now like I miss a lot of the coversations, and or its very delayed. It is odd since the codeplug works on my older firmware radio, but didn't work on the two newer firmware radios I tried, at least without disabling the TX with the consentric switch.

 

[XTS500]

So any one zone on one of my NAS radios would look like this.

1 - FIRE SCAN - Conv Pers FIRE SCAN (scans the 15 [trunked] channels in this zone)
2 - FIRE DISP - Conv Pers FIRE DISP (Scans only FIRE DISP [trunked])
3 - FIRE OPS 1 - Conv Pers FIRE OPS 1 (Scans only FIRE OPS 1[trunked])
3-16 other conventional RX-Only channels like above

17 - FIRE DISP - Trunked Pers FIRE DISP
18 - FIRE OPS 1 - Trunked pers FIRE OPS 1
19-31 Other trunked talkgroups

Each zone only has 31 total channels. 16 conventional and 15 trunked. 15 conventional channels will only point to a single trunked channel and one channel (channel 1) will point to all talkgroups in this zone.

Could it be trying to affiliate because smart zone is disabled and I don’t have the preferred sites set

 

[rescue161]

No. If it is affiliating, the radio is on a talkgroup. If you did NAS correctly, the radio will always be on a conventional channel and not on a talkgroup.

Just send me the codeplug and I'll look at it.

 

[ElevatorsAndRadios]

Could it be trying to affiliate because smart zone is disabled and I don’t have the preferred sites set

Actually yes. Coverage should be set to SmartZone if it is in fact a SmartZone system. Do not mess with preferred sites. Just switch to Smart Zone and see what happens. This issue of attempted affiliation due to the wrong coverage type has previously been documented either on this forum, Communications Support, or both.

 

[chrismol1]

Would the Site ID or RFSS attempting to monitor be different that the default of 1? Theres a issue with setting to Disabled and attempted transmitting has been seen with the wrong Site ID and RFSS numbers that doesn't correspond to the current receiving or programmed control channels which the radio sayys Hey that don't jive, I need to attempt to resolve a discrepancy and talk to the system. Something that shouldn't happen while sitting on a conventional channel scan you would want to think, but does. Has the radio had a new codeplug blown into it? Sometime yea things get weird

 

[rescue161]

Just send the codeplug to rescue161@gmail.com and I'll take a look.

 

[XTS500]

Just send the codeplug to rescue161@gmail.com and I'll take a look.

Okay will do. Thanks

 

[ElevatorsAndRadios]

Would the Site ID or RFSS attempting to monitor be different that the default of 1? Theres a issue with setting to Disabled and attempted transmitting has been seen with the wrong Site ID and RFSS numbers that doesn't correspond to the current receiving or programmed control channels which the radio sayys Hey that don't jive, I need to attempt to resolve a discrepancy and talk to the system. Something that shouldn't happen while sitting on a conventional channel scan you would want to think, but does. Has the radio had a new codeplug blown into it? Sometime yea things get weird

Yeah, that sounds similar to what I have read.

OP's intuition about coverage type being set to disabled is likely the issue, or at least part of it. Of course, some self-proclaimed "expert" had to thumbs-down OP's reply, giving the impression that OP is wrong when he or she very well may be right.

If it is affiliating, the radio is on a talkgroup.

Incorrect, see above and chrismol1 (Post #17)

I advise OP and all reading this to take everything on this forum with a grain of salt and to do a lot of research. The same applies to any advice received after sending a codeplug to someone. If a given source provides incorrect information, then I would be skeptical of further information from the same source.