Yaesu: Yaesu FT60R vs Baofeng UV5G

[dkcorlfla]

Hi all, I just got my scanner and SDR antenna re-configured so I can us my SDR again and thought it might be interesting to compare the TX output of my Yaesu FT60R vs Baofeng UV5G. While the Yaesu is a ham radio HT and the Baofeng is a GMRS version so the only change made to my SDR software was the frequency. All other setting where the same, I used the delayed screen shot option on my computer to walk a couple of housed down to make sure I was not over loading the front end on the SDR. both HT where on low power (.5 watt) I found the results to be stunning.

Take a close look at 446.00 on the Yaesu screen shot - see the trace? Very week signal that I can still see when the Yaesu was transmitting. Don't think that is going to happen with the Baofeng.

The saying you get what you pay for comes to mind.

 

[KevinC]

Hi all, I just got my scanner and SDR antenna re-configured so I can us my SDR again and thought it might be interesting to compare the TX output of my Yaesu FT60R vs Baofeng UV5G. While the Yaesu is a ham radio HT and the Baofeng is a GMRS version so the only change made to my SDR software was the frequency. All other setting where the same, I used the delayed screen shot option on my computer to walk a couple of housed down to make sure I was not over loading the front end on the SDR. both HT where on low power (.5 watt) I found the results to be stunning.

Take a close look at 446.00 on the Yaesu screen shot - see the trace? Very week signal that I can still see when the Yaesu was transmitting. Don't think that is going to happen with the Baofeng.

The saying you get what you pay for comes to mind.

That's a "feature". Simultaneous multi-frequency transmissions. I'm surprised they put that in a CCR.

 

[dkcorlfla]

That's a "feature". Simultaneous multi-frequency transmissions. I'm surprised they put that in a CCR.

Free spread spectrum TX included at the low cost of $30 what a deal ;-)

 

[Cognomen]

That's what you want when you call for help. EVERYONE hears you.

 

[mass-man]

IMPRESSIVE

 

[mmckenna]

Yeah, that's what most people have noticed with the CCR's. Little/no filtering, stuff getting chucked out all over the band. Superior Chinese technology.

However, there are those that will argue to the death that the Baofengs are superior radios in every way.

In other words, "That's what you get for $20". There's no way that should be passing FCC specs.

 

[sallen07]

OK I'll bite.

I was certainly not shocked to see that an FT-60 is 'cleaner' than a Baofeng. That's what I would expect.

With that said, however, is the Baofeng clean enough? Does it meet FCC standards?

95.1779b specifies the maximum allowable harmonics power for a GMRS radio. As with most of Part 95 E, that section seems to be confusing, redundant, and even self-contradictory (look at subparts 1 & 2 and compare to subparts 5 & 6!), but I *think* the rule that applies to the first harmonic would be 3 since it appears to be about 6.25 kHz away from the fundamental. If I did the math right (and I have my doubts) that gives you:

83 * log (6.25 / 5) = 83 * log (1.25) = 83 * .09691 = 8.04 db

If I'm totally misreading the regulations please correct me.

The other subparts talk about 25, 35, and 43+10*log(P) db (where P is power in watts) which would be 50 for a 5 watt transmitter. It looks to me like the first harmonic is about 45 db down from the fundamental.

I also looked at 97.307 which is emission standards for amateur radio, and I can find requirements for HF and VHF but not UHF. Did I miss them?

Not defending Baofengs, or CCRs in general, but personally I feel that if I am going to tell someone, "That radio is garbage" I need to have the facts to support my assertion.

 

[dkcorlfla]

OK I'll bite.

I was certainly not shocked to see that an FT-60 is 'cleaner' than a Baofeng. That's what I would expect.

With that said, however, is the Baofeng clean enough? Does it meet FCC standards?

Good point, is it clean enough? I bought the pair because it was stated it meets FCC GMRS standards. So maybe it's good enough. I did not want to spend much on GMRS so the low cost was attractive. BTW - I do plan on testing the second unit to rule out the first might have been defective. The first unit does work as is and I was able to hit a local GMRS repeater so maybe it is good enough. One thing for sure is it was cheap enough ;-)

 

[k6cpo]

Comparing a Cadillac to a Yugo would yeild these kind of results too...

 

[dkcorlfla]

Comparing a Cadillac to a Yugo would yeild these kind of results too...

But is a Yugo good enough? Kinda think the Baofeng might be a few steps up from the Yugo ;-)

 

[nd5y]

How do you know the junk on the SDR display is real?

 

[mmckenna]

How do you know the junk on the SDR display is real?

We don't. But it matches what others have seen with the CCR's. It's not surprising….

 

[WaveFront]

The point of this post is what? YouTube is full of spectrum analysis videos of various HT. The concern usually starts with the second harmonic, which would be over 900Mhz for a GMRS channel. Are you aware that GMRS typically uses wide-band transmission? Great you are having fun with your radios, but …

 

[WRQS621]

Why?

 

[sallen07]

The point of this post is what? YouTube is full of spectrum analysis videos of various HT. The concern usually starts with the second harmonic, which would be over 900Mhz for a GMRS channel. Are you aware that GMRS typically uses wide-band transmission? Great you are having fun with your radios, but …

That's not correct. The spikes are not harmonics of the transmitted frequency, they are generated by internal harmonics in the transmitter. If you look at the plot you'll see they start about 50 kHz away from the fundamental frequency. So you aren't looking for a spike at 943 MHz!

If you look at the frequency that was tested, that's one of the 467 interstitials, which are *narrow* band on both FRS and GMRS radios.

 

[sallen07]

We don't. But it matches what others have seen with the CCR's. It's not surprising….

Yeah what HE said.

At this point I'm really wishing I hadn't made my initial post in this thread. I was hoping that someone would check my math and either verify that the radio being tested appears to be dirty but still in compliance or tell me where I went wrong.

Apparently the reason I couldn't find the standard for spurious emissions on 70 cm is that there isn't one!

 

[mmckenna]

Yeah what HE said.

At this point I'm really wishing I hadn't made my initial post in this thread. I was hoping that someone would check my math and either verify that the radio being tested appears to be dirty but still in compliance or tell me where I went wrong.

Apparently the reason I couldn't find the standard for spurious emissions on 70 cm is that there isn't one!

I'd be happy to toss one on my service monitor. Problem is, I don't have one.

I did have a site that had a few many years ago. They had all kinds of problems with them. I did put one on my service monitor. It was quite a ways off frequency and deviation was out of specs.
I had them replace all the radios with Kenwood LMR gear, which fixed most of their communications issues. Next time I'm down there I'll see if they have any old Baofengs around and see if they'll let me take it for testing.

 

[MTS2000des]

A Boaturd uses a cheapo consumer toy ASFIC, RDA1846 turdpile IC to generate RF, and they send the unfiltered output to a cheap PA and call it a day. Zero front end filtering on RX makes it a deaf lemon in the presence of ANYTHING DC to daylight.

FT-60 is a real radio with proper discrete filtering on both TX and RX, has a solid old school dual conversion superhet RX that doesn't desense near your wireless router.

One is a radio, one is a road apple.

 

[nd5y]

A cheap SDR is a road apple compared to a real receiver or a real spectrum analyzer.

 

[merlin]

At least I got my Baofeng before the Chinese knockoffs
Even it has 3rd order spikes but nothing like the knockoffs.
meets FCC specs at 462.200