Yaesu: Yaesu FT60R vs Baofeng UV5G

[WRQS621]

I am still a Baofeng fanboy.

 

[MTS2000des]

You can't polish a turd.

 

[WRQS621]

You can't polish a turd.

You would be amazed at what polyurethanes and other clear coatings along with some elbow grease can do. So technically a turd can be polished. In my other hobbies, taking a turd (like a Baofeng) and making it useful or better is the fun. Just buying a high end widget that is perfect is boring. I mean look at a TRTL-SDR dongle. It is a turd for what it was originally designed for, but when some curious nerd found another use for it, wow, it is almost limitless what they can do.

Stop bashing Baofengs, use that technology to create something better.

 

[redbeard]

You would be amazed at what polyurethanes and other clear coatings along with some elbow grease can do. So technically a turd can be polished. In my other hobbies, taking a turd (like a Baofeng) and making it useful or better is the fun. Just buying a high end widget that is perfect is boring. I mean look at a TRTL-SDR dongle. It is a turd for what it was originally designed for, but when some curious nerd found another use for it, wow, it is almost limitless what they can do.

Stop bashing Baofengs, use that technology to create something better.

Second reference to the cheap RTL SDRs in this thread. I think they are great. However it's still not apples to apples as my RTL doesn't transmit and affect other people. My choice in cheap SDR only affects me. Your choice in horrible transmitters affects anyone close enough to be interfered with. It's an affront to the rules.

 

[mmckenna]

Stop bashing Baofengs, use that technology to create something better.

They pretty much bash themselves at this point. We just point and snicker where appropriate.

For low budget ham use, they are fine. If the cost of a radio is keeping someone out of the hobby, then by all means, a Baofeng is the right tool for the job.

 

[vagrant]

Admitting there is a problem is the first step toward recovery. I too purchased a Baofeng. It was a gateway radio as I now use Motorola. This addiction has cost me thousands of dollars...and gave me endless fun. Still, those licensed or licensed by rule operators are a finicky bunch.

 

[AK9R]

If the cost of a radio is keeping someone out of the hobby, then by all means, a Baofeng is the right tool for the job.

The bigger issue, in my opinion, is the myth that an inexpensive handheld is an amateur radio station. In the literal sense, it is. But, you can't communicate very far on simplex with a handheld and if you are using a handheld to access repeaters, your signal will often be noisy and inconsistent.

The leap from a $25 handheld with a rubber duck antenna to a 2m mobile with power supply with outside antenna is huge and relatively expensive. Wearing our mentor hats we, in my opinion, need to help new hams figure out ways to bridge that gap even if it's only using that handheld with a J-pole antenna hanging from a wall inside their apartment.

 

[dkcorlfla]

There's one big flaw in the arguments being presented here. The OP is comparing a radio designed and built for the amateur service against one designed and built for GMRS. That's like comparing apples and oranges. The only thing apples and oranges have in common is that they are fruits. The only thing a Yaesu FT-60 and a GMRS Baofeng have in common is that they are radios. They operate in different services and don't even fall under the same set of regulations. The regulations quoted above are from Part 97, which applies to the amateur service. They, including 97.307(c), DO NOT apply to GMRS or the radios used there. GMRS has it's own set of regulations laid out under 47 C.F.R, Part 95 Subpart E.

My understanding on the Baofeng UV-5G is it is the same radio as the UV-5R but has different firmware to prevent it from TX outside the GMRS channels. The UV-5R from what I have read can be unlocked and made to TX on the GMRS channels but that would be against the FCC rules. I would love to re-run my simple test using a UV-5R on the exact same frequency as the Yaesu FT-60R but I do not have one to test. While it is true it was not an apple to apple test I did the best I could to test both radios as close to even as I could get. Still think it was fun and I learned a lot.

If anyone wants to loan me a UV-5R I would be happy to re-run.

 

[mmckenna]

The bigger issue, in my opinion, is the myth that an inexpensive handheld is an amateur radio station. In the literal sense, it is. But, you can't communicate very far on simplex with a handheld and if you are using a handheld to access repeaters, your signal will often be noisy and inconsistent.

The leap from a $25 handheld with a rubber duck antenna to a 2m mobile with power supply with outside antenna is huge and relatively expensive. Wearing our mentor hats we, in my opinion, need to help new hams figure out ways to bridge that gap even if it's only using that handheld with a J-pole antenna hanging from a wall inside their apartment.

I agree.
My first amateur radio was a hand held. I figured that was a good place to start.
Checking into my first net, I had to stand in just the right location outside, doing the Statue of Liberty pose, to get into the repeater.
Next radio was a 2 meter mobile with a -permanent mount- antenna. Night and day difference. Next purchase was a J-pole for outside the house, fed with <gasp> 50 feet of RG-58 from Radio Shack.

Part of the ongoing learning process.

 

[k6cpo]

The implication in that statement is that the Yaesu is the Cadillac and that the only difference between the two is fit/finish/luxury/options and they both will get you where you want to go.

However the reality here is that the Yaesu is the Yugo, and the BaoTurd is something which should never get cleared by the NHTSA for travel on US roads. Because the latter is unsafe to those around it.

"It works, doesn't it?" is a statement used by the ignorant who don't realize that there is more to the equation. You don't know what you don't know is a phrase that comes to mind. But what many who would argue in favor of the BingBong do know is their ego and the inability to admit fault at subjects they are unfamiliar with. Thus we end up with people who will 'die on this hill' defending their precious garbage.

K6CPO, this isn't in any way a personal attack on you, but a generalization based on similar statements made by people trying to compare apples to particle physics.

No offense taken. We've got some good discussion going on here and that's the whole idea. I'm not seeing any of the negativity that' shows up these days.

Personally, I don't think a Baofeng is a good recommendation for a brand new ham with zip experience. UNLESS... The person making the recommendation is willing to sit down with the new ham and teach them all the quirks with the radio (and has the knowledge to do so.) The internet is full of people immediately saying the Baofeng is the best radio for a beginner without explaining some of the shortcomings of the radio. There are a number of YouTube channels doing this.

The issue is so bad that our local ARES group started teaching the basics of handheld radios once a month after our meetings. It was done on a one-to-one basis with mentors experienced with the particular type of radio the new person had or was interested in. This included all brands, including Baofeng. Many of the people came back several time for further instruction. Unfortunately, this came to a halt with the Covid lockdowns and hasn't yet resumed. I'm hoping to get something going again independent of ARES in the near future.

 

[MTS2000des]

You would be amazed at what polyurethanes and other clear coatings along with some elbow grease can do. So technically a turd can be polished. In my other hobbies, taking a turd (like a Baofeng) and making it useful or better is the fun. Just buying a high end widget that is perfect is boring. I mean look at a TRTL-SDR dongle. It is a turd for what it was originally designed for, but when some curious nerd found another use for it, wow, it is almost limitless what they can do.

Stop bashing Baofengs, use that technology to create something better.

Not bashing, stating the truth. I realize that isn't in fashion today, but FACT remains these radios are subpar garbage, based on cheap consumer grade toy ICs and do more harm than good: aside from sounding like mumbling low audio turds on ham radio bands, they are responsible for much unauthorized operation across RF spectrum by consumers who procure off Chinazon thinking they are buying "licensee free walkie-talkies" when they are anything but.

This junk should be considered contraband like other counterfeit Chinese feces and subject to confiscation by law enforcement, then destroyed.

 

[dkcorlfla]

This junk should be considered contraband like other counterfeit Chinese feces and subject to confiscation by law enforcement, then destroyed.

You have me rolling on the floor, might be a bit harsh but funny

Perhaps we should rename the cheap Chinese radios POO FLUNG ;-)

 

[mmckenna]

No offense taken. We've got some good discussion going on here and that's the whole idea.

This site is fun when it's adults acting like adults. Healthy discussion, even if there are disagreements, are always a good thing.

 

[redbeard]

...they are responsible for much unauthorized operation across RF spectrum by consumers who procure off Chinazon thinking they are buying "licensee free walkie-talkies" when they are anything but.

This junk should be considered contraband like other counterfeit Chinese feces and subject to confiscation by law enforcement, then destroyed.

THIS. I personally have already found two instances of unlicensed operation using CCRs. Both revolve around a certain park/campground/concert venue. A touring artist's crew had UV5Rs ON THE LOCAL SHERIFFS FREQUENCY but luckily with the wrong PL and the Sheriff's office already switched to the state trunked system for their primary operations. Then later I found out the park staff bought new Retevis radios to upgrade from FRS and they are all on 146/147MHz freqs. The only saving grace may be that it is in the middle of nowhere and probably only ~2W so they must not be interfering with any local hams.

 

[mmckenna]

THIS. I personally have already found two instances of unlicensed operation using CCRs. Both revolve around a certain park/campground/concert venue. A touring artist's crew had UV5Rs ON THE LOCAL SHERIFFS FREQUENCY but luckily with the wrong PL and the Sheriff's office already switched to the state trunked system for their primary operations. Then later I found out the park staff bought new Retevis radios to upgrade from FRS and they are all on 146/147MHz freqs. The only saving grace may be that it is in the middle of nowhere and probably only ~2W so they must not be interfering with any local hams.

A few years ago we had a large wildfire in the area. The local fire channels were getting hit with citizens wanting to "help" and coming up on their channels offering advice/info, (rather than going through 911 to the EOC and out that way). Fire got pretty annoyed with it and went and talked to some of them. Baofengs. And I'll give you one guess where they got the frequency/PL info from. I'll wait…..

The county is planning on going to full time encryption on law enforcement. Fire is considering it. Also looking at replacing with a regional P25 trunked system. Public safety agencies have had enough of this nonsense. When hobbyists complain about encryption and trunked systems, remind them of why we can't have nice things.

 

[sallen07]

And I'll give you one guess where they got the frequency/PL info from. I'll wait…..

Pick me pick me!! I know this one!!!

The 1990 edition of "Police Call" for your area??

Sorry, couldn't resist. But all kidding aside, your point is well taken. Sadly that genie was let out of the bottle years ago, and even if the FCC waved their magic wand and stopped all future imports of wide-open CCRs today, the damage cannot be undone. Requiring them to be imported locked down to just ham frequencies was a good step, but the fact that it takes about 5 minutes to unlock them (including the time to search the Internet and find the magic button sequence) kind of negates that.

 

[mmckenna]

Pick me pick me!! I know this one!!!

The 1990 edition of "Police Call" for your area??

"Close, but no cigar".

Sorry, couldn't resist. But all kidding aside, your point is well taken. Sadly that genie was let out of the bottle years ago, and even if the FCC waved their magic wand and stopped all future imports of wide-open CCRs today, the damage cannot be undone. Requiring them to be imported locked down to just ham frequencies was a good step, but the fact that it takes about 5 minutes to unlock them (including the time to search the Internet and find the magic button sequence) kind of negates that.

Yeah, that, or "MARS/CAP" modded hammy radios.

It can be locked down in firmware easily enough, problem is the companies that sell these sorts of radios here in the USA as well as overseas don't want to be troubled by that. Yet, the feds could enforce it.
But then, some individuals would still buy new or used part 90 radios and program them up.

Ideally it needs to be an individual responsibility/ethics thing. But we know how well that works out, don't we?

 

[redbeard]

If they are seizing shipments of the Flipper Zero they could do the same for the CCRs.

 

[MTS2000des]

THIS. I personally have already found two instances of unlicensed operation using CCRs. Both revolve around a certain park/campground/concert venue. A touring artist's crew had UV5Rs ON THE LOCAL SHERIFFS FREQUENCY but luckily with the wrong PL and the Sheriff's office already switched to the state trunked system for their primary operations. Then later I found out the park staff bought new Retevis radios to upgrade from FRS and they are all on 146/147MHz freqs. The only saving grace may be that it is in the middle of nowhere and probably only ~2W so they must not be interfering with any local hams.

This is scary. It's no different with BDA/DAS, and not just for public safety/part 90. Stupid consumers turn to Chinazon, where a plethora of RF emitting devices are for sale from dubious sources adding to the noise floor, causing debilitating interference, and compounding the problem. The FCC is too busy pandering to the telecom cartels, and enforcement resources just are not there.

Joe stupid consumer wants "long range walkie-talkies" and orders up some Baoturds from Chinazon. Has no idea nor cares that he/she may be interfering with someone else whether it be police, fire, EMS, animal control or Joe the Plumber who is actually licensed. Jenny consumer's cellphone doesn't work in her house, so off to Chinazon to buy a "booster". Jenny has no idea that this class A broadband amp is as much of a spurious emitting POS as that Boaturd made in the same factory, it makes her phone show more "bars" so it must be working, right? She has no idea that since turning this road apple on, a ton of illegal carriers are now present on the uplink of a nearby RFSS for the 700/800MHz PS system in her area and the cops can't talk. She has no idea that AT&T/T-Mo/VZW are now seeing broadband noise clobbering LTE on a nearby site.

Common denominator here are junkpile devices + dumas consumers = tons of HASH AND TRASH, illegal operation, unintentional jamming, and job security for us certified in RFIM.

Baoturds and their low TX deviation, pathetic receiver front ends, and garbage pail performance are only the beginning.

 

[KevinC]

This is scary. It's no different with BDA/DAS, and not just for public safety/part 90. Stupid consumers turn to Chinazon, where a plethora of RF emitting devices are for sale from dubious sources adding to the noise floor, causing debilitating interference, and compounding the problem. The FCC is too busy pandering to the telecom cartels, and enforcement resources just are not there.

Joe stupid consumer wants "long range walkie-talkies" and orders up some Baoturds from Chinazon. Has no idea nor cares that he/she may be interfering with someone else whether it be police, fire, EMS, animal control or Joe the Plumber who is actually licensed. Jenny consumer's cellphone doesn't work in her house, so off to Chinazon to buy a "booster". Jenny has no idea that this class A broadband amp is as much of a spurious emitting POS as that Boaturd made in the same factory, it makes her phone show more "bars" so it must be working, right? She has no idea that since turning this road apple on, a ton of illegal carriers are now present on the uplink of a nearby RFSS for the 700/800MHz PS system in her area and the cops can't talk. She has no idea that AT&T/T-Mo/VZW are now seeing broadband noise clobbering LTE on a nearby site.

Common denominator here are junkpile devices + dumas consumers = tons of HASH AND TRASH, illegal operation, unintentional jamming, and job security for us certified in RFIM.

Baoturds and their low TX deviation, pathetic receiver front ends, and garbage pail performance are only the beginning.

One of my favorites is the karaoke mics from eBAY/Amazon or even local stores in some cases. I'd venture to guess they are more prevalent than people realize, but the illegal carrier pops up for a few hours on Saturday night and then it's gone until the next party. Had an eye opener once with the customer when I listened to the frequency the illegal carrier was one and we heard "Don't break my heart, my achy breaky heart". The customer had no idea a wireless mic could do this.

I've also had professional mics cause issues. All of them were supposed to be off of the 700 LMR band years ago but not everyone got the memo.