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Illegal cb and amplifier enforcement action in Illinois
- Thread starter gewecke
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stlouisx50
Member
While this may be true, it's WHERE you transmit that matters! Too many cb'ers tend to want to talk where they do not belong. They want all the benefits without doing what's required.
73,
n9zas
So tell me this, how does a ham operator know he is not causing interferance even with his licence, hence you CAN go out of band. Having a license or not makes no difference.
As far as the CB's causing interference, I have never seen or heard of emergency services in the 25-30 mhz range.
While on the topic of illegal radio use, if the FCC wants to crack down, then they had better start with businesses and private citizens that illegally use GMRS/FRS frequencies. If ham operators cared about the total reason "illegal use" not "it interferes with my allowed band use" maybe there would be some support for the true problem.
Ham operators and the FCC sure don't seem to complain about the thousands of illegal, unlicensed, expired public safety radios that are still being used on a semi to everyday basis.
Hams know where they are supposed to transmit and stay there. If they are told they are causing interference for the most part they rectify it if for no other reason they are accountable by virtue of their license. Aircraft, ships and the Civil Air Patrol and other US Govt. agencies have allocations in the 25-30Mhz range as well as 27.065 a distress frequency. But that's just part of it, illegal CB equipment radiates harmonics that fall within public safety ranges, I had one of the so called "10 meter" radios and could key up my local 2 meter repeater by transmitting on 29.277, it was putting out that much power on the 5th harmonic. And yes the FCC has taken enforcement action against public safety users with expired licenses but they weigh the benefit/cost to the public when deciding to let them continue to operate until they get relicensed or shutting them down. I agree that illegal use of GMRS frequencies is a problem but since the radios only put out a 1/2 watt they are not generating many interference complaints. The fact that you argue that CBs don't/can't cause interference to emergency communications is why the FCC gives greater freedom to hams because in studying for your license you learn these things. 25-30 Mhz is not a barren wasteland of empty frequencies besides the uses already mentioned there are frequencies for studio to transmitter links, oil spill clean up, private ambulances, logging operations, etc. granted many users have migrated elsewhere because "freebanders" have made those frequencies unusable.
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stlouisx50
Member
While I totally agree with you on your points, how many of us have ever heard of a CB radio interfering with Aircraft Ships and the CAP in the 25-30? I am sure it is possible, but for the most part when someone has a huge overpowered radio they are not going to just carry a conversation with someone outside of the CB / Ham Band. If you want to go that route, then you had better crack down on anyone using channel 9 for non-emergency use. As far as government frequencies, they can choose pretty much any area they want. We all know most governmental use is not in the 25-30 MHZ range anyway. If a radio is keying up on 29.277 MHZ and causing a repeater to key up in the 2 meter band then I must say this. There is also a problem with Cell Towers and Pager Transmitters doing the same thing in the 136-174 MHZ range (Governmental) yet been allowed to do this for years! Oh but that's not all, you have the same problem 400 MHz - 1300 MHZ.
Since the FCC owns what they do and people would like to communicate with each other without restriction. Make a band for it. The stupid GMRS and FRS crappy radios don't cut it. You can barely talk down the street. So they are a waste of band space. They had walkies talkies in the 49mhz range that sucked just as much. Cordless phones were in the 49 MHZ range and so were those walkies talkies, people dealt with it, the bands changed, problem solved.
Not every time a cell phone is useful. Not every area has cell service, Not everyone can afford to rent the radio equipment or towers to communicate.
A simple big radio takes care of that.
Bands change all the time , yet are there any more free allowances? NO! Why? Control, that's why.
Public Safety Radios cause interference with each other too, even during skip. Are we to clench our teeth together when this happens too? I bet anyone complaining about CB'ers wouldn't!
Until the FCC cracks down on Mexican illegal use. I see no reason for the US to give a care in the world.
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Just because people speed and drive drunk should all traffic laws be repealed? And yes they should crack down on non-emergency use of channel 9 that's why it's become almost useless, but I do my part if I hear somebody on Channel 9 I identify as Emergency Service and ask them what their emergency is and they usually leave, if not I don't get into an argument with them. Anytime the local 911 people have had problems with interference from other services they've called upon the local hams, we tracked it down and the problem was soon solved. If a licensed user is informed they are creating interference they usually fix it on the other hand an illegal CBer usually says kiss my a$$ I'll talk where I want. People seem to think no license=no rules, we have hunters using the VHF Marine Band like crazy around here since they did away with licensing of voluntary equipped vessels.
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ka5lqj
Member
"Old" vs "New"
Gentlemen,
Please allow me to interject something here. Back in 1962, when I first
got into "Class D" Citizen's Radio Service, the then amplifiers were take-
offs of old, Class C Ham power amps. They were about ran about 85% of
the duty-cycle. The modulators in the ham rigs were prevented from
running over 100% modulation. CB radio's had no circuit like that. So,
when they were cranked up, (over-driven), the audio splattered, caused
'spurs' in the signal and interfered with other services.
An amplifier these days has to be class AB1 and runs only 35% of the duty-
cycle. Nowadays, CB.s have a modulation limiter (unless you add a power
mic).
What good does it do to run 300 to 500 watts, if you can't be understood?
The idea is to get the modulation as near to 100% as possible, then back it off about 5 to 7%. This will give you a clean signal.
Trucking companies have gotten smart and installed GPS tattle-tale units in
the rigs. If the trucker stops when he's not supposed to, they know it. If
you want to put a wrinkle in their shorts, get the name of the trucking firm,
call them, e-mail them or write them a certified letter explaining how they
could be financially responsible for any fines from the F.C.C. or the D.O.T.
because one of their drivers, say, "Steamboat" for instance, is causing
severe interference to other radio services. If that doesn't work, report
them to the D.O.T. ;-)
GOD BLESS,
73,
"Buck"/KA5LQJ
Licensed Amateur Operator over 30 years
Gentlemen,
Please allow me to interject something here. Back in 1962, when I first
got into "Class D" Citizen's Radio Service, the then amplifiers were take-
offs of old, Class C Ham power amps. They were about ran about 85% of
the duty-cycle. The modulators in the ham rigs were prevented from
running over 100% modulation. CB radio's had no circuit like that. So,
when they were cranked up, (over-driven), the audio splattered, caused
'spurs' in the signal and interfered with other services.
An amplifier these days has to be class AB1 and runs only 35% of the duty-
cycle. Nowadays, CB.s have a modulation limiter (unless you add a power
mic).
What good does it do to run 300 to 500 watts, if you can't be understood?
The idea is to get the modulation as near to 100% as possible, then back it off about 5 to 7%. This will give you a clean signal.
Trucking companies have gotten smart and installed GPS tattle-tale units in
the rigs. If the trucker stops when he's not supposed to, they know it. If
you want to put a wrinkle in their shorts, get the name of the trucking firm,
call them, e-mail them or write them a certified letter explaining how they
could be financially responsible for any fines from the F.C.C. or the D.O.T.
because one of their drivers, say, "Steamboat" for instance, is causing
severe interference to other radio services. If that doesn't work, report
them to the D.O.T. ;-)
GOD BLESS,
73,
"Buck"/KA5LQJ
Licensed Amateur Operator over 30 years
"So tell me this, how does a ham operator know he is not causing interferance even with his licence, hence you CAN go out of band"
Hams can get busted when they go out of band, case in point I was once operating during a contest without thinking I worked a foreign station that was just 1 KHz inside the US phone band well I got a pink slip for operating out of band because my modulation put me outside my authorized band. And that's with thousands of stations on the air that day so they were paying attention.
Hams can get busted when they go out of band, case in point I was once operating during a contest without thinking I worked a foreign station that was just 1 KHz inside the US phone band well I got a pink slip for operating out of band because my modulation put me outside my authorized band. And that's with thousands of stations on the air that day so they were paying attention.
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stlouisx50
Member
That sucks for you. Are you supposed to do scan each time you key up to see if your radio transmits out of band, while on a legal in band frequency?
Why is that your fault?
That's like saying you are allowed to jump in a pool but are forbidden to cause waves.
nd5y
Member
When you operate HF:
1. You are supposed to know the bands and subbands where your class of license allows you to operate and and which modes are allowed in which subbands.
2. You are supposed to know the bandwith of whatever mode you are transmitting.
3. You are supposed to know that when operating USB or LSB modes (or AFSK RTTY or digital modes on USB/LSB) the radio displays the suppressed carrier frequency and your transmitted signal is higher or lower than the display frequency. There can also be an offset on CW or direct FSK RTTY depending on the design of the radio.
4. Based on 1, 2 & 3 you are supposed to keep far enough away from the band edges that you don't transmit out of band.
Most of us have accidently done what NC4DX did but there are also a lot of hams that are clueless.
I have heard hams running FM on 29.7 and 144.0 for example.
1. You are supposed to know the bands and subbands where your class of license allows you to operate and and which modes are allowed in which subbands.
2. You are supposed to know the bandwith of whatever mode you are transmitting.
3. You are supposed to know that when operating USB or LSB modes (or AFSK RTTY or digital modes on USB/LSB) the radio displays the suppressed carrier frequency and your transmitted signal is higher or lower than the display frequency. There can also be an offset on CW or direct FSK RTTY depending on the design of the radio.
4. Based on 1, 2 & 3 you are supposed to keep far enough away from the band edges that you don't transmit out of band.
Most of us have accidently done what NC4DX did but there are also a lot of hams that are clueless.
I have heard hams running FM on 29.7 and 144.0 for example.
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While this may be true, it's WHERE you transmit that matters! Too many cb'ers tend to want to talk where they do not belong. They want all the benefits without doing what's required.
73,
n9zas
I was guilty of this in my younger days, I ran the "freebands", talking to Australia a few times in the "uppers" and avoiding the crowds and idiots on the "lowers". I also ran a Texas Star 667VM linear amp. I was young, none of my friends had a desire to get the ham license, the gear was cheap and easy to come up with and we could all BS with each other when we wanted, pre-cellphones.
At the time, it was awe inspiring to see what it would do when I keyed that beast up! Garage doors opened, lights would come on, automatic doors would open etc., I was young and dumb. I never thought about what else I was messing up, much less care. Now I know and know better.
All was fine and dandy living in a rural area, but when I moved into town, not a mile away from the airport, I started noticing a lot of Chrysler cars with two guys following me around, always watching my antenna and looking to see if I had a mic in my hand. Really bizarre stuff!
I learned a lot that year! Most metropolitan airports have an FCC based at them, and the FCC uses a lot of non-descript cars without any antenna's to triangulate and track you down. I also learned that bloody cheap linear amps can knock out the coms in an airport tower!
Get your ham license, run legal, clean power and forget about the mess on the CB bands!
K9WG
Member
Back many, many years ago I hooked a 100W 11-meter amplifier up to a legal (new out of box) 27Mhz CB radio. The service monitor instead of showing a nice sinusoidal modulated envelope was more like a square wave. The harmonics and spurs went all the way up into the UHF range. You can imagine what some of these higher power amps being driven with "peaked" CB are doing.
Are you for real? No, legal cb's do not normally create any interference,but Illegally modded cb's DO create a great deal of problems not for public safety but for our military who retain exclusive authorization for many freqencies in the range between 25-30mhz.
So what band is being interfered with that you are allowed to use?
FRS is no problem,carry on unless you are referring to GMRS to which you need to be licensed to use.
You ask HOW do we know we are not creating harmful interference? Easy, we use only the bands we are authorized to operate on with type accepted equipment for those said bands!
Does this answer your questions?
73,
n9zas
stlouisx50
Member
Are you for real? No, legal cb's do not normally create any interference,but Illegally modded cb's DO create a great deal of problems not for public safety but for our military who retain exclusive authorization for many freqencies in the range between 25-30mhz.
So what band is being interfered with that you are allowed to use?
FRS is no problem,carry on unless you are referring to GMRS to which you need to be licensed to use.
You ask HOW do we know we are not creating harmful interference? Easy, we use only the bands we are authorized to operate on with type accepted equipment for those said bands!
Does this answer your questions?
73,
n9zas
Yes sir it does. But as I was saying, there are many more legal radio systems out there as mentioned that cause all kinds of mirrored images all over the bands. They are OK to do this? I thought not.
As far as GMRS many of the FRS radios now will operate in the band as well. I know the power is low, and it's still illegal. I have never heard of the FCC cracking down on businesses that have not registered their radios either as required. Illegal is illegal if they are going to crack down, then do it on all bands.
From what all the hams are saying over and over CB radios with high power are the problem. Well whats the threshold that the FCC looks for? Anything over 5 watts? 50 watts what? Again Illegal is anything over 5 watts (CB Band) but why crack down on just the big guys and not the little guys.
Is the fine the same or do they base it on the amount of wattage over the limit?
If government frequencies are in that 25-30 mhz band, why can't we hear their communications mirrored on the CB radios?
Lastly, I will say this one more time. Crack down on Mexico if anything, their operators are just out there to annoy the P out of you. Roger beeps, sound boards, with mega power.
reedeb
Member
HOW is a US agency gonna crack down on a foreign country's folks using radios in their country? IF however they are here in THIS country then they might be able to.
pjtnascar
Member
I doubt very much that the FCC will go after any end users of peaked CB equipment. I would think that a CB user would need to be causing extensive interference on public safety bands, or a number of complaints would have to be received. They will go after the sellers of illegal equip because it is an easy case to prove, and the businesses involved have assets that make it worth the FCC's time to prosecute. If you're running a peaked cobra 148GTL, I doubt the men in suits will be knocking on your door.
The FCC will go after end users if they can find them(it's a matter of how many complaints they generate). stlouis the interference that you talk about legal users creating is probably just a product of the receiver in your scanner, commercial grade equipment that public safety users use probably doesn't even hear it. If a licensed user is creating real interference to another licensed system the FCC will step in.
Google KC5WHN for an example
Google KC5WHN for an example
Ham frequencies were assigned such that harmonics would fall in another ham band, ie. the first harmonic of 7.100 is 14.200, etc....
cellblock776
Member
I used to belong to another radio forum where I posted a notice of an upcoming CB Keydown contest. We discussed this on the forum and several of us decided to give the FCC a heads up on this event. We sent letters to the FCC all the way up to Riley Holingsworth, the then-enforcement guy, and sat back to see the announcements of the fines and confiscations. The weekend of the Keydown came and went. The websites and forums for the keydowns were all abuzz over the event and how well it went. Nothing from the FCC at all. Nada. This was a no brainer, easy win. Send a couple of Field types out to the shopping mall where this was happening, record the violators and start issuing fines. But it never happened. The FCC didn't seem to give a darn. After that I really lost any concern over any FCC enforcement actions. They make a show of putting out notices on a few violators once in a while but give them a full plate like a widely publicised Keydown and they can't be bothered. {Shrugs} So why should I care either.
"If government frequencies are in that 25-30 mhz band, why can't we hear their communications mirrored on the CB radios?"
The U.S. government has frequencies reserved for their use in this part of the spectrum,but whether they choose to use them is not up to us but non the less they ARE there. Whether or not you hear them does not matter. There are several types of emissions that your cb will not hear.
However...You are allowed to use 26.965 to 27.405 and no more.
DEAL with it!
n9zas
ksphotoguy
Member
That really is quite funny isn't , when you think about it.... they have all the info they need to catch a bunch of the big power crowd, have all the info they need handed to them on a silver platter... should be as easy as shooting fish in a barrel.... and they don't lift a finger in any way shape or form. They totally ignore it. THAT is a prime example of what's wrong with our governement today. Complete and total inaction. They exist, therefore they are..... thats all that matters to them.
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