I mean I’m a ham as well and I’ll preach LE/PSAPs working with the ham community but even I know there’s a level of quality that that TYT(and other cheap pieces of crap) doesn’t exude. That level of stupid is intolerable and someone’s going to get killed
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911 Dispatch Radio Problems
- Thread starter pepper33
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I posted a thread a while back where I saw a deputy using a Baofeng while on duty, I think he was on a traffic stop or something, the video was recorded from the person he stopped. I'll have to go back and find it, I was really shocked when I saw that..
RFI-EMI-GUY
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Consoles can be programmed to control two base stations, a main and a standby. You might have two control stations ( mobiles) in the closet to control one or two repeaters, or directly wired to base or repeater stations. Fire codes require a back up means. So normally only one transmits at a time. If the shop miswired, or misprogrammed the console, both could be transmitting and creating an awful tone or noise on the air and paging tones missed.
12dbsinad
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If you're going to start using mobile radios as dispatch control stations, you better know what you're doing. Depending on the bands used, and the RX dbm levels, you can encounter severe desence issues if using multiple mobile radios. At minimum control radios need to be actual base stations with filtering designed for the frequencies. Not saying this is the problem, but you can't just throw up a bunch of mobile radios and pray it works in a dispatch center.
I'm leaning in the direction of the problem being the console system install, too.
Levels are vital. Level out of the radio & going into the tone remote adapter going toward the console electronics, and levels going out of the console electronics to the tone remote adapter & radio. It's easy to just throw components together and they 'sound' OK, but if nobody has measured levels, you don't know where you stand.
Several years ago my then-boss & I went out to a location, trying to get some business. 3 position Centracom console, less than 6 repeaters and a couple more channels, mixed between aging Micors, MSF's spread out among several locations. We just spent the day, him at dispatch CEEB resetting levels out of the BIM (Base Interface Module) and me at each station, measuring the incoming levels with a real TIMS, and adjusting the modulations accordingly. Response we got was 'Best it's ever sounded!!' and a bunch of paging tone problems went away (intermittent pageout, not understandable, etc).
There is real test equipment that the techs should be using to do setup & installation, record measurements and (IMHO) provide a written report of results to the customer. Service Monitor, Transmission Test Set (phone line tester), RF power meter, site sensitivity/desense tests, etc. etc.
This ain't rocket science. But it is necessary to use real test equipment to deal with these things. Making yourself an accurate system diagram might help in understanding; consoles, radios in the closet, ancillary equipment attached, etc etc.
If these 2 techs can't provide written test results I think your center is getting screwed. And by not requiring that as part of the process, they've been complicit in screwing themselves. "It's the stingy man who pays the most!" - Tom & Ray Magliozzi, Click & Clack, the Tappett Brothers.
My new aphorism: If chemical plants were built like some two-way radio systems, there would be a helluva lot more explosions.
Levels are vital. Level out of the radio & going into the tone remote adapter going toward the console electronics, and levels going out of the console electronics to the tone remote adapter & radio. It's easy to just throw components together and they 'sound' OK, but if nobody has measured levels, you don't know where you stand.
Several years ago my then-boss & I went out to a location, trying to get some business. 3 position Centracom console, less than 6 repeaters and a couple more channels, mixed between aging Micors, MSF's spread out among several locations. We just spent the day, him at dispatch CEEB resetting levels out of the BIM (Base Interface Module) and me at each station, measuring the incoming levels with a real TIMS, and adjusting the modulations accordingly. Response we got was 'Best it's ever sounded!!' and a bunch of paging tone problems went away (intermittent pageout, not understandable, etc).
There is real test equipment that the techs should be using to do setup & installation, record measurements and (IMHO) provide a written report of results to the customer. Service Monitor, Transmission Test Set (phone line tester), RF power meter, site sensitivity/desense tests, etc. etc.
This ain't rocket science. But it is necessary to use real test equipment to deal with these things. Making yourself an accurate system diagram might help in understanding; consoles, radios in the closet, ancillary equipment attached, etc etc.
If these 2 techs can't provide written test results I think your center is getting screwed. And by not requiring that as part of the process, they've been complicit in screwing themselves. "It's the stingy man who pays the most!" - Tom & Ray Magliozzi, Click & Clack, the Tappett Brothers.
My new aphorism: If chemical plants were built like some two-way radio systems, there would be a helluva lot more explosions.
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speedway_navigator
Member
My former business partner told a story about his days as a Motorola FTR doing a factory acceptance test in Schaumburg. He asked the tech how he set levels on the trunk system, the tech said that was done in the field by the install crew.
A few months later he got a call to see why the new system sounded like crap, so he asked the tech to show him how the levels were set.
"We're not allowed to touch that, the factory guys do it." (yes P-25 master, it was you know who)
Are the tones generated in the console or radio? I'd put the radio on a dummy load and see how the tones sound, then a mag mount to isolate the external antenna.
A few months later he got a call to see why the new system sounded like crap, so he asked the tech to show him how the levels were set.
"We're not allowed to touch that, the factory guys do it." (yes P-25 master, it was you know who)
Are the tones generated in the console or radio? I'd put the radio on a dummy load and see how the tones sound, then a mag mount to isolate the external antenna.
Project25_MASTR
Monitoring
They whom I shall no longer name here on RR...which is a dead give away for those who followed the Amazonian story.
I appreciate everyone for replying. Lately the Sheriff's Department Channel has been working better but still every now and then transmissions will be cut off. The Fire and EMS channel still has a bad humming noise and the tones still are having problems going through.
Also some departments have to be paged on the repeater across the river and others must be paged on CSQ/Talk Around because they cannot hear if it is paged on the repeater. The consoles are supposed to automatically page on either the repeater or talk around but sometimes they dont
Also some departments have to be paged on the repeater across the river and others must be paged on CSQ/Talk Around because they cannot hear if it is paged on the repeater. The consoles are supposed to automatically page on either the repeater or talk around but sometimes they dont
RFI-EMI-GUY
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It must be the weather!
Oh my. I hope you have put the dogs after that shop that did the install.
speedway_navigator
Member
Arkansas must be the one state out of 50 where full foliage makes radios work better, maybe leaves act as passive repeaters.
I worked with a PE who said he ended up paying about $70k to the county and a local radio shop to cover the poorly performing equipment he bought from a xmtr mfg to prevent a lawsuit from being filed, which would have made the mfg look bad along with the PE's reputation.
I guess the obvious solution is to have the radio guys let you know what weather conditions the equipment works in and let the agencies know they only need to respond during those times. Think of all the overtime and payroll costs you will save!
I worked with a PE who said he ended up paying about $70k to the county and a local radio shop to cover the poorly performing equipment he bought from a xmtr mfg to prevent a lawsuit from being filed, which would have made the mfg look bad along with the PE's reputation.
I guess the obvious solution is to have the radio guys let you know what weather conditions the equipment works in and let the agencies know they only need to respond during those times. Think of all the overtime and payroll costs you will save!
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