A CBer and commercial radio host's take on GMRS

[bill4long]

I've listened a lot, and find that the band is overrun with people on low-quality walkie talkies with low vocal quality/low modulation. Most of the time it sounds lkle the users are talking with the radio a foot away from their mouths.

Just around my neighborhood (one mile radius) in a smallish city (population about 90k) there is a fair amount of FRS being used: one tree nursery, a YMCA, a preschool, a dentist office, a used car dealer, and others. And of course, the usual kiddies in the apartment across the street come and go. Driving around, sometimes I scan FRS/GMRS (using my mobile ham radio), and it has a lot of use around here. The businesses always have good sounding radios. The kiddies have junky sounding radios most of the time.

Seems to me like FRS is being used exactly how the FCC intends it to be used.

As for quality of audio, there are good quality FRS radios available. Amazon has a ton of them, along with the cheap crap. You get what you pay for.

When I need to use license-free talkies, I prefer MURS, because there are no bubble pack MURS radios, and thus never any kiddies on them even though I never hear any kiddies interfering with business users on FRS. A lot of stuff going on over MURS channels 4 and 5 around here (including Walmart.) I never hear anyone on MURS channels 1, 2, and 3, so I usually use one of those.

As for using FRS as a hobby, I have no reason to do that. I've been a ham for 40 years and get plenty of hobby talk from that.

As for CB, I never have a reason to use that. I would never use it for hobby talk, but I can see where CB might be useful in a traveling situation, mobile to mobile. There are many decent radios available for a reasonable price.

 

[mmckenna]

Is this lack of audio quality in modulation a product of the band, or a product of the crappy walkie talkies in use? On the other end, I don't like the CBer with the over modulated power mic either, but it's always nice to be able to clearly hear what the other other party is saying.

Thoughts?

It's a product of cheap consumer grade radios. Most people are using consumer grade FRS or GMRS radios. They are mass produced, low parts count radios, most of the work is done on a chip. They are mass produced in Chinese factories and get very little in the way of tweaking. They are designed so that any variations in component tolerances will still result in them meeting the FCC requirements.

In other words, they are designed to be "good enough" for consumer users that are accustomed to crappy cell phone quality audio.

You can easily do better with a good commercial radio. Better tolerances, better alignment, better speakers, more sensitive receivers and better overall quality makes a huge difference. The improved audio quality you seek is there, you'll just have to pay/work for it.

Even the Midland mobiles are pretty low quality radios. Likely the same integrated circuit "radio on a chip" that the cheap FRS/GMRS radios use, with a larger power amplifier. That's pretty much it. Yeah, you get 40 watts of crappy sounding audio.

And then you get the users of those radios that spend the money on "40 watts!!!" and then insist on hooking it up to the cheapest/crappiest antenna they can lay their hands on.

Many of us have used GMRS for a long time. I used it for many years until I could get others in the family to get their ham licenses. We used commercial radios, permanent mount mobile antennas, or base antennas at home, and often a larger external speaker.
The better antennas increased useable range. Mobile to mobile on the flat lands, getting 15 miles or more range simplex was easy to do. The larger speakers made the audio sound great and improves intelligibility.

For quite a while I had access to a high level repeater and a few times I was able to talk with my dad 100 miles to the east.


But, yeah, what you are hearing is cheap radios, users that don't understand how to space back from the microphone, low efficiency antennas, and often poor installation skills. It's not hard to do better with good equipment.
GMRS is a great tool if it's set up right. Problem is most consumers won't do that.

 

[FPR1981]

What are your thoughts on the copper J pole antenna for the GMRS band?

 

[03msc]

A j-pole antenna for any vhf or uhf band is going to perform decently well. Is it the best antenna with the highest gain? No. But it will do a good job and they are pretty resilient against the elements they face when mounted outdoors. I know Michael at jpole-antenna.com has some that will work for GMRS. I'm sure there are others, or you can make your own.

 

[nd5y]

What are your thoughts on the copper J pole antenna for the GMRS band?

There is a reason you never see j-poles used in public safety or commercial installations.

 

[FPR1981]

I plan to buy the 89 dollar ground plane that boasts 5db, but have considered making a J pole in the meantime.

 

[03msc]

There is a reason you never see j-poles used in public safety or commercial installations.

Not arguing that they are great or anything but...I didn't realize that GMRS is "public safety"...

A j-pole antenna will be fine for him to get on the air unless and until he gets a higher quality antenna, if he desires.

 

[bill4long]

J-Poles have nulls. Just be aware of that.

 

[FPR1981]

J-Poles have nulls. Just be aware of that.

So almost like a beam has a back door?

 

[CRVFC500FF]

In the interest of full disclosure, and without shame, I'd like to get this out there right now. Let the chicken bander jokes fly, because yours truly is a CBer 😅😅😅😅

Yes, I have an education. Yes, I have a career, but something about the CB has always fascinated me, and I can't tell you why. I am also a former broadcaster. I worked in AM and FM commercial radio on the programming and air staff side for 7 years, but also assisted our engineers on the tech side when requested.

Now that I've gotten that out of the way, here's why I'm here. I first acquired a Radio Shack FRS walkie talkie in 1999. I was pleasantly surprised at the range, as prior to seeing this, little was available to the consumer that was affordable and decent.

I had a set of Midland and Cobra FRS/GMRS walkie talkies later, but did very little with them.

In any event, having seen that Midland came out with mobile units, and that the Jeep people were really getting into them, I gave them a second look. I bought a Tram dual band magnet Mount and stuck it on the car.

And yes, I did something I probably shouldn't have. I removed the antenna out of my Cobra Microtalk walkie talkie and installed an SMA jack. However, the vast majority of my interest at this point has been monitoring and not actually using this half-watt Monster.

The first day I heard kids goofing off on multiple channels. Then each day on channel 8 I hear a business running vehicle descriptions all day non stop. Not sure what they're doing, but if you politely ask them for a radio check, they promptly run from you, giving code and switching to another channel.

I caught a convo on an FRS channel, waited for a break in their conversation and then politely asked if my radio was working. I was told, "Get the f--- off my channel."

Well, okay then...

I've listened a lot, and find that the band is overrun with people on low-quality walkie talkies with low vocal quality/low modulation. Most of the time it sounds lkle the users are talking with the radio a foot away from their mouths.

If there's static in there with their transmission then forget it. They might as well be whispering.

Is this lack of audio quality in modulation a product of the band, or a product of the crappy walkie talkies in use? On the other end, I don't like the CBer with the over modulated power mic either, but it's always nice to be able to clearly hear what the other other party is saying.

Thoughts?

Sounds like your listening to a FM narrow band (+/-2.5kHz) transmission on a wide band (+/-5kHz) receiver, hence, low audio.
If you feel the need for a radio check then its time to get your ham license. You can get radio checks, talk about equipment, modulation, range, etc. to your heart's content. I listen to 3 or 4 GMRS repeaters in the Balto/Wash area on my 440MHz ham mobile. Similar boring chit-chat found on ham repeaters. The future of GMRS? If using for commercial or family use then it should be transitioned to DMR format like most of the commercial 2-way stuff has.

 

[FPR1981]

Sounds like your listening to a FM narrow band (+/-2.5kHz) transmission on a wide band (+/-5kHz) receiver, hence, low audio.
If you feel the need for a radio check then its time to get your ham license. You can get radio checks, talk about equipment, modulation, range, etc. to your heart's content. I listen to 3 or 4 GMRS repeaters in the Balto/Wash area on my 440MHz ham mobile. Similar boring chit-chat found on ham repeaters. The future of GMRS? If using for commercial or family use then it should be transitioned to DMR format like most of the commercial 2-way stuff has.

Dave/K4EET is actually my elmer for my amateur license. I'm going to begin studying under him for the general. I realize its 25 years overdue, but I had a family to raise, and my ex wife was an ass about my radio hobby.

I will say, in defense of 11 meters around where I live, we have some great people on the air. Over 50 percent are hams, but they enjoy their roots on CB. Plus with CB being without repeaters, it requires being resourceful in selecting the right equipment to set up a rig that gives you maximum distance and good audio.

The dumbass redneck CBers of yesteryear are mostly all dead in my area, or have moved on. CB here is a lot of fun, and I plan to still use CB along with joining my ham friends.

 

[mmckenna]

What are your thoughts on the copper J pole antenna for the GMRS band?

I wouldn't waste the effort in building/tuning one. Sure, it's a fun exercise, and there's some reward and building your own antennas. But if you have a commercial antenna on it's way, the J pole might be a waste of time.

A 1/4 wave ground plane is easy to build, very forgiving on the tuning, and will work well.

 

[borderpolman]

Sounds like your listening to a FM narrow band (+/-2.5kHz) transmission on a wide band (+/-5kHz) receiver, hence, low audio.
If you feel the need for a radio check then its time to get your ham license. You can get radio checks, talk about equipment, modulation, range, etc. to your heart's content. I listen to 3 or 4 GMRS repeaters in the Balto/Wash area on my 440MHz ham mobile. Similar boring chit-chat found on ham repeaters. The future of GMRS? If using for commercial or family use then it should be transitioned to DMR format like most of the commercial 2-way stuff has.

DMR is an alternative for family only local coms.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

DMR is an alternative for family only local coms.

Not in the US, not legally under the Part 95 PRS.

There is 446 MHz dPMR (ETSI DMR Tier 1) in Europe , a very low power unlicensed digital service with basically same range as FRS.

 

[WB9YBM]

In the interest of full disclosure, and without shame, I'd like to get this out there right now. Let the chicken bander jokes fly, because yours truly is a CBer 😅😅😅😅

Yes, I have an education. Yes, I have a career, but something about the CB has always fascinated me, and I can't tell you why. I am also a former broadcaster. I worked in AM and FM commercial radio on the programming and air staff side for 7 years, but also assisted our engineers on the tech side when requested.

Now that I've gotten that out of the way, here's why I'm here. I first acquired a Radio Shack FRS walkie talkie in 1999. I was pleasantly surprised at the range, as prior to seeing this, little was available to the consumer that was affordable and decent.

I had a set of Midland and Cobra FRS/GMRS walkie talkies later, but did very little with them.

In any event, having seen that Midland came out with mobile units, and that the Jeep people were really getting into them, I gave them a second look. I bought a Tram dual band magnet Mount and stuck it on the car.

And yes, I did something I probably shouldn't have. I removed the antenna out of my Cobra Microtalk walkie talkie and installed an SMA jack. However, the vast majority of my interest at this point has been monitoring and not actually using this half-watt Monster.

The first day I heard kids goofing off on multiple channels. Then each day on channel 8 I hear a business running vehicle descriptions all day non stop. Not sure what they're doing, but if you politely ask them for a radio check, they promptly run from you, giving code and switching to another channel.

I caught a convo on an FRS channel, waited for a break in their conversation and then politely asked if my radio was working. I was told, "Get the f--- off my channel."

Well, okay then...

I've listened a lot, and find that the band is overrun with people on low-quality walkie talkies with low vocal quality/low modulation. Most of the time it sounds lkle the users are talking with the radio a foot away from their mouths.

If there's static in there with their transmission then forget it. They might as well be whispering.

Is this lack of audio quality in modulation a product of the band, or a product of the crappy walkie talkies in use? On the other end, I don't like the CBer with the over modulated power mic either, but it's always nice to be able to clearly hear what the other other party is saying.

Thoughts?

Sounds like you've come across a fair share of bad operators out there--been through that myself & noticed that no service or frequency band is immune from that. Sometimes it's gotten to the point where I just want to throw my radios out the window and think, "to heck with this--I don't need the headaches". Other times I look forward to long chats with friends. I guess the trick is to find your niche and enjoy, maybe even hope that the idiots out there learn from your positive example (but don't hold your breath).

As far as the equipment problems you've mentioned, some people just don't understand how to operate a radio--maybe they never had someone to show them how. Or, they're just self-proclaimed experts that think they know better (or enjoy acting up). It's not always due to bad equipment (although I've also heard my share of junk on the air).

 

[FPR1981]

I have a CBer buddy who is also a ham and he records nasty and unintelligent conversations he hears on amateur bands, and some of it puts anything I've ever heard on CB to shame.

 

[iMONITOR]

The last CB radio I had was the factory installed "premium" radio on my 1999 Harley and it was usable for about a 1/4 of a mile on the Interstate. After my first road trip, I never turned it on again.

They're doing it wrong. I don't even want to guess what Harley charged for that.

 

[bill4long]

Not in the US, not legally under the Part 95 PRS.

There is 446 MHz dPMR (ETSI DMR Tier 1) in Europe , a very low power unlicensed digital service with basically same range as FRS.

Motorola makes license-free 900mhz DTR radios that are digital. They work great. But they are pricey.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Motorola makes license-free 900mhz DTR radios that are digital. They work great. But they are pricey.

Yeah they are pricey even in comparison with the low end CLS business radios Motorola sells. They are Part 15 radios being in the ISM band.

Actually, that market needs competition now that TriSquare is defunct. There needs to be a repeater and network capable radio. Engenius might have something close.

 

[alcahuete]

I have a CBer buddy who is also a ham and he records nasty and unintelligent conversations he hears on amateur bands, and some of it puts anything I've ever heard on CB to shame.

There are bad apples everywhere...ham, CB, GMRS, MURS. That's life. As a total percentage though, it seems that there is a far greater percentage of bad apples on CB compared to ham.

Motorola makes license-free 900mhz DTR radios that are digital. They work great. But they are pricey.

The older models can be found on eBay sub $100 if you find them at the right time. Still pricey, but a lot cheaper than the brand new ones. Great radios.