A full featured scanner

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davidmc36

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So you are all basically saying to use a DMA structured memory? So if we use something like a SD card how is that done?
The SD card would just be for storing different profiles that you could upload/download without having to hook up the scanner to a port all the time. You could have several of them on seperate cards to replace the programming in the scanner depending on the situation/place you were in. You would still have the massive on board memory (YES, DMA style) that the scanner operates from. You could also do things like record audio to it. Then you put the card into your computer to put a new profile on it that you make in the software or dump the audio to a file.
 

Forts

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The SD card would just be for storing different profiles that you could upload/download without having to hook up the scanner to a port all the time. You could have several of them on seperate cards to replace the programming in the scanner depending on the situation/place you were in. You would still have the massive on board memory (YES, DMA style) that the scanner operates from. You could also do things like record audio to it. Then you put the card into your computer to put a new profile on it that you make in the software or dump the audio to a file.

V-Scanner with removable storage basically. Recording audio would be slick too. I think I also prefer the Uniden style DMA memory but there some aspects OOP that I like. Being able to make a scanlist with a handful of talkgroups from one system, a handful from another system and a few conventional channels is handy as hell. I suppose technically you can do this on a Uniden too by creating multiple systems and assigning them to the same Quick Key but there would be a lot of duplication. I'm still puzzled by why the new GRE/RS models only have 20 scan lists. Thats like coming up with the hottest new fully automatic weapon on the market, but only giving you 20 bullets. What a handicap.
 

gbowne1

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Ok, Well yes that would be nice to have several profiles available. Those types of memory devices are potentially something that the user would already have too. They're used in all sorts of devices.

So, if we're recording to a card. What format would we use, WAV, WMA, MP3?

I also don't want to be limiting or handicapping the user in any way in the way of storage.

Greg
 

gmclam

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Scanner memory organization

That's pretty much what you are doing with the DMA scanners would you not say?
Systems=Banks (They have a limit but it is large)
The new DMA scanners allow quite a few systems. And each system can have a lot of "talkgroups=channels"
There is a slight difference between a device which uses only dynamic banks vs true OOP. For the technical minded, it is no biggie to say that "frequencies", "talkgroups", "control channels" and the like are each objects and can be assigned or grouped. But there are those who don't quite grasp the concept - just like many have not grasped trunking. The key is to write firmware that is flexible and does not waste memory (like 10 fixed banks of 100 channels typically does).
 

davidmc36

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There is a slight difference between a device which uses only dynamic banks vs true OOP. For the technical minded, it is no biggie to say that "frequencies", "talkgroups", "control channels" and the like are each objects and can be assigned or grouped. But there are those who don't quite grasp the concept - just like many have not grasped trunking. The key is to write firmware that is flexible and does not waste memory (like 10 fixed banks of 100 channels typically does).
Are the Uniden DMA scanners not structured the same as the Pro OOP ones? I do not have a new Pro.
 

davidmc36

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Ok, Well yes that would be nice to have several profiles available. Those types of memory devices are potentially something that the user would already have too. They're used in all sorts of devices.

So, if we're recording to a card. What format would we use, WAV, WMA, MP3?

I also don't want to be limiting or handicapping the user in any way in the way of storage.

Greg
MP3 for compatibility and compressability
 

Mike_G_D

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The PROJECT!

Well, I will admit to being in the skeptic crowd here along with zz0468. But I have for some time been toying with the idea of communicating with some of the more technically inclined folks here (been making a mental list based on post content, etc.) and coming up with a "paper-ware" concept design for a wideband, but with as solid as is practical RF design, scanning receiver. I'd start with a full bore approach - money not a factor - and then see what creative ideas we can collectively come up with to actually keep as much of the RF performance as possible while keeping the cost under $2K, preferably under $1K but I will not constrain it to the $500 mark. This kind of unit would be for those of us really wanting and needing good RF performance and I think such folk would be willing to shell out at least $1K (providing it really DOES give exceptional (among consumer scanning receivers) RF performance) for it.

I've been thinking of things like modular front and back ends to tailor the unit to each individual's needs and price points. There would be the high performance modules and the basic economy units and, possibly, various levels in between. I have been thinking of a base unit with well shielded bays for plugging in the appropriate modules for a given situation. For extreme performance you could have mono-band front end modules for specific needs. A large unit could be an option to allow multiple front end modules so as to facilitate high performance multi-band operation or, with dual back ends, perhaps in-band dual receiver operation. A mobile version with more limited options could be designed, perhaps with only one back end bay and no more than two front end bays. The workhorse standard back end could be such that one could use it interchangeably between the base and mobile; the front end would be interchangeable also. I'm thinking the back end would take care of all of the signal processing from IF to I/Q outputs. Further processing would be either fixed in the main frame or, possibly, via another interchangeable module (again for price/performance tailoring). The front ends would handle RF to IF conversion and have basic filtering in the economy versions all the way up to automatically switchable bandpass filters and, perhaps, at least for some bands where practical, some selectable (and maybe "tunable") band reject filters with low noise, high IP3, high dynamic range amps in the big guns mega high performance versions. A possible hand held unit could use the same basic back end if it could be designed in a small enough form factor that could be practically, and with reasonable mechanical robustness, mated with the hand held main frame. This way, one could conceivably have base, mobile, and hand held frames and buy only one interchangeable back end to share between them.

All of which may indeed be a pipe dream and not actually practical but in working on the design perhaps some practical real workable solutions could fall out of the effort.

That being said, I guess you may be working along similar lines. So I will add my thoughts. Well, actually, for the most part, I will simply add my support behind zz0468's recommendations - he pretty much took the words out of my mouth, so to speak. Like him, I would stick with N connectors. They are reliable and robust - much more so than BNC's. At least I would have it be a customer option choice to have either BNC or N. Forget the old Motorola connector and PL259 - not worth the extra cost! And...long wire??! Really?! At the frequencies this unit is shooting for...I honestly can't see the need unless it does HF and MF below 20MHz! Just stick to N and/or BNC (or maybe TNC, SMA, or SMB) and forget the rest.

All for now - interesting! Hope you're for real! We need new approaches!

-Mike
 

davidmc36

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Just to derail things a bit!! When I was looking for my first digital scanner I saw a few of those units that are just a little black box that was computer controlled. The trouble was none were trunking. How about making something like that. It is just a reciever and all the control and features are on the computer. I guess it would have a discriminator output and that would be about it. The computer would do the rest. Does this sound do-able or am I lost in the reeds?
 

Mike_G_D

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PC/radio

Just to derail things a bit!! When I was looking for my first digital scanner I saw a few of those units that are just a little black box that was computer controlled. The trouble was none were trunking. How about making something like that. It is just a reciever and all the control and features are on the computer. I guess it would have a discriminator output and that would be about it. The computer would do the rest. Does this sound do-able or am I lost in the reeds?

You mean something like this: http://www.winradio.com/home/g305e.htm with the trunking option - http://www.winradio.com/home/ato-g305.htm.

I was thinking of bringing these up as the most likely currently available competition to what the OP was suggesting.

-Mike
 

davidmc36

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You mean something like this: http://www.winradio.com/home/g305e.htm with the trunking option - http://www.winradio.com/home/ato-g305.htm.

I was thinking of bringing these up as the most likely currently available competition to what the OP was suggesting.

-Mike
If it had just a couple more trunk options I think that could be my nest base scanner. Especially if there were some open source software solutions available. It says Moto "Smartnet". Just to clarify on a point that I am not too clear on, that is not the same as either "Smartzone" or "Type I". is it?

Also, just out of curiosity, would you say that it is ultimately sending the discriminator output to the computer via the USB or Serial Port? I did see in the description that it needs a soundcard though!!
 

KT4HX

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If this was mentioned, my apologies, but didn't find it when I searched. Anyway, what are your thoughts on the display color? If it is one color then I would vote for green. I have found it the most pleasing to my eyes anyway, and the easiest to see day or night. Better yet, would be a user selectable, multi-color display, so the user can select the display color of his/her choice (yellow, orange, red, green, blue, violet come to mind).
 

davidmc36

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If this was mentioned, my apologies, but didn't find it when I searched. Anyway, what are your thoughts on the display color? If it is one color then I would vote for green. I have found it the most pleasing to my eyes anyway, and the easiest to see day or night. Better yet, would be a user selectable, multi-color display, so the user can select the display color of his/her choice (yellow, orange, red, green, blue, violet come to mind).
If there is only one I will take green too.
 

Mike_G_D

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WinRadio

David,

I don't know the exact answer to your question regarding the supported trunking protocalls but I be surprised if it didn't handle Type I. As to your other question - it uses the soundcard of the PC to do the final hardware processing with the software doing all the analysis and final processing, at least this is how I understand it. Your best bet would be to call them and talk to someone knowledgeable at WinRadio (or email).

-Mike
 

mikebires

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Bring Back Rolling Zeros

Lets see those cool rolling zeros across the screen again! Also, someone mentioned hot keys for police, fire, ems. That would be great, especially if they were maybe color coded. I liked the old Bearcat 300 because they incorporated some color to the buttons.

Also, instead of pl-259 jacks, how about someone finally add jacks for the different bands, so we can use perfectly tuned antennas for the bands we listen to. And if you are going to do that, make sure the 800 mhz and up jack is an N connector.

Last, if it is going to be a desk top unit, make it look beefy and big. This micro radio crap has to stop. And when you do this.....could you please add a quality front firing speaker?

You da man
 

gbowne1

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Ok, so we are all good on using a N connector? How many N to BNC adapters are out there? BNC would be a user selectable option at this point.

Ok, so we will export to the SD card MP3 audio, at say 128 or 192kbps.

The hotkeys could appear both in the software, user editable, and also appear in the control software.

If everyone would agree.. a green green would work for me as well. But, I like the idea to have the color selectable, as a users preference.

The soundcard deal would or could be bi directional maybe, both between the pc and the scanner. It would not ultimately need a sound card to operate, but it would certainly be a plus for the user..
The audio shelided cables for pass through would have to be fairly well shielded.

As for modes, it would certainly do and be capable of anything that is legal.. I understand that there's some rather high priced licensing fees for some of the modes.

As for the radio's size.. I have a 2' x 5' office desk where I use all of my radios.. For my use I would want something that does not dwarf the desk, but still give me enough ergonomics in the use of it. Something 12" deep by max 24" wide would be nice.

I have the capability to make fairly large sized circuit boards (PCB's), I think up to 48x48. I have to check to see what the machine will actually do. I do have some friends that do PCB routing with CNC machines.

Mike_G_D, would you be willing to help do some development?

For people with different antennas, how about a place in the GUI to enter a known dB gain of any connected antenna? This would be assuming you could calcutate it, or actually knew it. But you could have the receiver test the antenna, and output a dB factor which it could set up for you.

I'm not a audiophile, but I like having a quality speaker.

Greg
 

davidmc36

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David,

I don't know the exact answer to your question regarding the supported trunking protocalls but I be surprised if it didn't handle Type I. As to your other question - it uses the soundcard of the PC to do the final hardware processing with the software doing all the analysis and final processing, at least this is how I understand it. Your best bet would be to call them and talk to someone knowledgeable at WinRadio (or email).

-Mike
That was my first thought, it must be "backward compatible" to the other modes. I will most certainly do some inquiring when I am ready to pry my wallet open again for a base model. On another note, I did see some links on their site to SDK's and control codes so others should be able to develop software.
 

davidmc36

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As for modes, it would certainly do and be capable of anything that is legal.. I understand that there's some rather high priced licensing fees for some of the modes.
Now there is a concept. If it is legal, I will pay to hear it. Not to the ends of the earth, but a hefty sum.
 

gbowne1

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David, me too. Everyone would have a slightly different price point they would agree on I suppose.

I was thinking, a lot of people have laptops. How about being able to control the receiver through a cable, bluetooth, wireless 802.11, or some form so you could sit back in your easy chair and scan remotely.

I have another idea. We could offer the software with a database disk for whatever region the user requests at the time of purchase. You could also offer the RR disk with it (maybe?), maybe others.

It definitely would have to be backward compatible.. and capable of having some room to grow. I certainly would want it capable of listening to any system in WA.

The power-on display screen when initialized should be also customizeable. The Pro-2055's screen when you turn it on says something about it. If it ends up being a LCD, then you could have a screensaver.

We could offer a HDK and/or a SDK to whom ever wants to do further customization.

Greg
 

Stick0413

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Ok, so we will export to the SD card MP3 audio, at say 128 or 192kbps.

I am not sure if others will agree but I have found through my personal recording that you don't even need 128kbps for scanner audio. 64 is actually enough. Even better though if it could be user selectable.
 
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