AirSpy comparisons?

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Yagi23

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That's all about the ADC, not about little Rafael's (mis)behaviour under tough conditions.

The Rafael R820T (yes this is just as much a mainstream DVB-T chip as the Mirics :) takes all the beating from your antenna.

There seems to be a general perception that the MSi001 is simply a DVB-T tuner that has been applied to SDR applications and as a result cannot deliver performance as good as it might, had it been designed with SDR in mind from the outset. This perception is quite wrong. The MSi001 was designed specifically as a tuner front end for a wide range of broadcast receiver applications using a SDR approach. DVB-T was simply one of several applications to which it has been successfully applied. The MSi001 was developed as part of a silicon and software solution for broadcast applications. The silicon acts as a ‘hardware accelerator’ for software demodulation. By using hardware to pre-select the wanted signal, the burden of software processing is reduced significantly. It is not necessary for example to process adjacent channels in software – unless you actually want to, because they can first be removed in hardware. The complete chipset is the MSi3101 which comprises the MSi001 and MSi2500. The MSI3101 was not designed to interface to any hardware DVB-T demodulators and has never been used as such.

To get the best performance from the MSi001, it is necessary to understand how the device works and crucially, how it differs from other silicon tuners. The first point to note is that the MSi001 has no autonomous AGC, either at RF or at IF. It simply has digitally programmable gain for every stage within the signal chain. The reason for this approach is that the algorithms for AGC need to be tailored to the specific needs of the system and as such there is no ‘one size fits all’ AGC solution that works well for all systems. When developing the MSi001 it was decided that AGC algorithms should be integrated into the demodulation software and tailored to the specific needs of the system. This is precisely what Mirics did with their own software for applications such as DAB/DAB+, ISDB-T, FM, and DVB-T. The AGC algorithms for FM are completely different for those used in DAB. To get the best out of the MSi001, it is necessary to implement an appropriate AGC, or at least ensure that the gain is set to an appropriate level. Setting the gain to maximum will in most cases simply overload the ADCs, particularly if an external LNA is also added. General purpose SDR application software such as SDR# or SDR Console do not natively include appropriate AGC feedback for the MSi3101 and so it is essential to ensure that the gain is set correctly to get the best possible performance. Where people have used the original Mirics dongles for general purpose SDR applications, it is most likely that any shortfall in performance is as a result of the lack of AGC or an inappropriate gain setting as these dongles were only designed with Mirics’ own software in mind.

The second point to note is that unlike conventional silicon TV tuners, the MSi001 has very high performance 5th order Chebyshev filters which can be programmed to set the bandwidth as low as 200 KHz or as high as 8 MHz. These filters use a self calibrated active R-C approach and as a consequence have exceptional signal handling. The correct use of these filters substantially eases the ADC performance requirements as if there are strong blockers, it is almost always possible to filter them out or substantially attenuate them prior to them reaching the ADCs. The ADCs in the MSi2500 are native 12 bit converters which deliver 10.5 ENOB at around 10 MS/s. As there are 2 converters (one each for I and Q), this is equivalent to 10.5 ENOB at 20 MS/s for a single ADC in a conventional low IF DVB-T front end. It should be noted that the MSi001 can support both zero IF and a Low IF of up to 2.048 MHz. In low IF mode, the filters operate as bandpass filters with the same selectivity as in low pass mode. As a consequence, the ‘Q’ of these filters is extremely high in band pass mode. Conventional DVB-T tuners simply cannot deliver this level of selectivity because the minimum bandwidth is typically only 6 MHz. I/Q correction is always necessary in ZIF receivers (albeit simple to implement) but unnecessary in Low IF receivers.

The gain/noise/linearity/ADC ENOB of the MSi3101 was specifically designed such that no one factor dominates performance.

Whilst the MSi001 was not designed for general purpose SDR applications, it certainly was designed as part of an SDR solution. The most obvious short-coming of the device for general purpose SDR applications is the oft commented ‘gap’ between the upper end of broadcast band III and the lower end of band IV. This exists, simply because there are no broadcast TV or radio transmissions at these frequencies and it was therefore not considered to be relevant when the part was developed. That aside and granted that the part will not perform to the same level as a very high quality (and very expensive) ‘professional’ receiver, the MSI001 can deliver good performance for a wide range of analogue and digital radio applications across a very wide range of frequencies and in many cases will significantly outperform the tuners used in the RTL-SDR dongles if used to its full potential
 

Meduzi

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Got to play with an Airspy this week.

First thoughts........

1) Covers the same range as my $15 TV dongle. as advertised!

2) Claims of 10 MHz is just that. Half a meg at each end is on no use whatsoever. whatever is at one end will appear at the other. Its 9 mhz + 1 meg of junk.

3) very weird frequency display generally. I'm used to a virtually flat response with other SDRs but airspy has far from flat responce and a soft slope at the lower end and a high drop of at the other. horrible display.

4) Meant to be free of "IQ imbalance, DC offset or 1/F noise at the center of the spectrum that plagues all the other SDRs". Really?? Then what is that spike in the middle of the display that I have to use the spike suppression to get rid of?

Conclusion. Not exactly what it says on the tin.
 

Meduzi

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The displays of the band vary quite a bit, depending on the video. Like most things. it's better to see for oneself, than to be told.
 

Voyager

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Thanks for posting that. I'll delve into it more later when I'm not as tired.

Maybe my greatest concern is this video I found that seems to expose a USB (?) issue at the 6:30 mark of the video where the Airspy becomes unstable around the area in the middle, but not those on stronger and weaker signals.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IidtrOOoSc

Can you explain what is happening there?
 

mancow

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Got to play with an Airspy this week.

First thoughts........

1) Covers the same range as my $15 TV dongle. as advertised!

2) Claims of 10 MHz is just that. Half a meg at each end is on no use whatsoever. whatever is at one end will appear at the other. Its 9 mhz + 1 meg of junk.

3) very weird frequency display generally. I'm used to a virtually flat response with other SDRs but airspy has far from flat responce and a soft slope at the lower end and a high drop of at the other. horrible display.

4) Meant to be free of "IQ imbalance, DC offset or 1/F noise at the center of the spectrum that plagues all the other SDRs". Really?? Then what is that spike in the middle of the display that I have to use the spike suppression to get rid of?

Conclusion. Not exactly what it says on the tin.


The claimed 9 MHz usable right from the get go. That wasn't hidden.

I get a very flat response with mine, other than the end slopes of course. The actual usable area is perfectly flat.

I just checked mine for the IQ imbalance. I actually had to go looking because I never noticed it before or saw it. There is a very slight trace if the box is unchecked in SDR#, maybe 5d of extremely narrow noise pulse.

I guess we all have our own opinions but as for me, I'm absolutely thrilled with mine. I have a 500 watt pager tower a mile from me on 158.100 and the Airspy works just fine where the dongles and the HackRF will produce nothing but a rainbow of streaks when it goes off.

I wanted a device that worked as an SDR, had some decent filtering without overloading with every moderately high signal level and was small and portable and reliable. So far it has met all of those so I'm happy.
 
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mancow

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Thanks for posting that. I'll delve into it more later when I'm not as tired.

Maybe my greatest concern is this video I found that seems to expose a USB (?) issue at the 6:30 mark of the video where the Airspy becomes unstable around the area in the middle, but not those on stronger and weaker signals.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IidtrOOoSc

Can you explain what is happening there?

I didn't watch every second of the video but a good portion of it. I don't know how much signal he is injecting but since it's meant for off air reception and not as a test set I don't see where it's an issue. I followed a long for a while and duplicated the settings but instead of injecting a signal I used a very strong local one coming in from an external antenna. I got the normal intermod produced noise floor "jitter" but what do you expect when an device is overloaded. I didn't notice anything that lead me to believe there was a USB issue.
 

prog

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Can you explain what is happening there?

Slow USB controllers drop or even overwrite samples causing phase modulation of the incoming signal. This is very well documented in the Quick Start page. A few users are already testing a new firmware update that adds 6 and 3 MSPS for slow computers, this should relax the hardware requirements.
 

prog

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The claimed 9 MHz usable right from the get go. That wasn't hidden.

I get a very flat response with mine, other than the end slopes of course. The actual usable area is perfectly flat.

I just checked mine for the IQ imbalance. I actually had to go looking because I never noticed it before or saw it. There is a very slight trace if the box is unchecked in SDR#, maybe 5d of extremely narrow noise pulse.

I guess we all have our own opinions but as for me, I'm absolutely thrilled with mine. I have a 500 watt pager tower a mile from me on 158.100 and the Airspy works just fine where the dongles and the HackRF will produce nothing but a rainbow of streaks when it goes off.

I wanted a device that worked as an SDR, had some decent filtering without overloading with every moderately high signal level and was small and portable and reliable. So far it has met all of those so I'm happy.

Don't forget that the Funcube Dongle Pro+ is a 16bit device with a LOT of filtering. The tested band has a SAW filter and a LNA to compensate for the insertion loss. However, as I said before proper architecture wins :)
 

Voyager

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Slow USB controllers drop or even overwrite samples causing phase modulation of the incoming signal. This is very well documented in the Quick Start page. A few users are already testing a new firmware update that adds 6 and 3 MSPS for slow computers, this should relax the hardware requirements.

OK. That sounds great.

And for ManCow, if it does it at a signal generator, it will likely do it for an RF signal of the same strength. It's odd that it does it for mid-range levels but not strong or weak signals. Regardless, question answered and thank you. Any estimated ship date yet? BTW, what are you losing for the lower sample rate? (I know you gotta lose something with it)
 

prog

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The pre-orders for the second batch are open. They will be delivered by the end of the month. By moving from 10 to 6MSPS for example, you lose about 2dB of SNR due to less oversampling. That's still acceptable.
 

SCPD

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For those who wanted numbers: http://youtu.be/c7tGFUG4FFQ

It's a pity Leif only watched DR up to 100kHz. At around 7.45 he correctly remarks "this is a close range test for 2 meters".

For a wideband receiver (many will use it as a wideband scanner) it is much more interesting to know how good the wide spaced preselection & blocking is.

Will I copy that weak aircraft with a pager or a FM megawatter next door?

How many dB down/oct is the chip preselector and what is max stop band attenuation?
 
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Voyager

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The interference (or lack of it) should be proportional.

I was surprised how well the FCDP+ did, but the AS was the clear winner.
 

shortwaver

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Airspy comparison to Commradio CR-1

I'm interested in if anyone has been able to compare the Airspy to the CR-1. I've always been impressed with the CR-1's low noise floor and sensitivity, and it sounds like the Airspy is doing pretty well in those areas as well.

Thanks
 

Flatliner

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Airspy doesn't cover HF, so that's an important chunk of the spectrum, missed on a test.
 

prog

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You can compare down to 24MHz. Bellow that limit you will need a very good upconverter (ie. one like the spyverter I'm preparing ;-). That said, I work closely with Don from CommRadio on the desktop integration of his CR-1a. I own a unit and I can say the hardware is of excellent quality and looks very promising. The integration with SDR# (and other SDRs) still needs a large amount of work in the firmware side, but it's a work in progress. I will publish more info when I have something to show you.
 

osros

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Im awaiting my Airspy and glad I made a good choice, that funcube not too shabby either surprised. I also just got in my Elad FDM-S2 unit mainly for HF and loving it so far its like you dont know what you been missing until to hear and see it. I dont have the best antenna setup but just plugging in the S2 on the same antenna I was using the AR5000A and SDR-14 on is like night and day a massive difference, pulling in all sorts of stuff and weaker signals. Now imagine what I can do with a proper antenna setup cant wait.

Sorry to pull off topic. Hey but I got a Airspy on order too! :p

SDRs have come a long way I guess the SDR-14 will retire and just serve and part of the radio art.
 

michael77

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That said, I work closely with Don from CommRadio on the desktop integration of his CR-1a. I own a unit and I can say the hardware is of excellent quality and looks very promising.

But the CR-1a uses the same Mirics tuner that you have been so disparaging of. How on earth can it be of “excellent quality” and look “very promising” if it uses a tuner that you have said performs so poorly? At least the Mirics tuner works down to 100 KHz and from other accounts is capable of giving excellent performance.
 
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