your guarantee doesnt mean a thing to me, i stated my opinion and you told yours, we just have to agree to disagree. i dont know how things are in california but here was mentioned by the mayor to keep transparency of government to the communitee.
Alaska Anchorage and what else ?
- Thread starter stok573
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If the people were to stand up and vote for a new mayor if he/she doesn't want to listen and other, then maybe some thing might get done.
Our tax money pays for it but we dont have a say,
People need to voice it.
If I lived there I would say dont ask for my help then.
gonefishn1
Member
The news media rely on scanners to get the information they tell the public! And did you forget you live in San Diego where the public safety channels are NOT encrypted? If you think encryption is so wonderful then just stop listening in on your city!
OK, so now that the city of Anchorage and other state agencies like Troopers have taken this step, here's a few talking points, that are even more concerning:
-- What's going to be banned, prohibited, made illegal and cut off from the citizens next in the name of officer safety and national security?
-- I see several comments on related news articles from people that are nothing but "elated" about the decision of blocking all communications and I can't help to think if these are the same people that wanted all the court records and other legal and judicial information from the government also taken down from the Alaska Courts webpage due to "privacy concerns". Who are these people and do they not realize the dangerous path we're headed the more information that we don't have any access to? Are THEY the ones that also have something to hide?
‘The buck stops with me’: Mayor Berkowitz takes responsibility for encrypting Anchorage scanners | KTVA 11 News | The Voice of Alaska
-- We're already living in the kind of world that so much information about what our government is doing with our tax money, our rights and safety is withheld in the name of "national security¨ or just because "the terrorists". When more and more FOIA requests are being denied even for your own personal information also in the name of the "greater good". We're already dealing regularly with government officials, politicians and many in the media shirking their duties to the citizens they're supposed to serve and now we're supposed to just trust them that they're making the right decisions for their safety and our own?
-- Where's the research, proof, studies, official reports, statistics and independent entities that looked into the matter and deemed the conclusive action as the only bullet-proof solution to a problem we didn't even know existed? They claim they have that info but where is it? Oh I forgot, "national security" again. So far all we have is the hearsay that "some" criminals are using the info heard to do "something".
-- How often are we going to be informed, statistically and otherwise of how much the encryption decision has helped and improve anybody's safety and reduce crime that seems to have gotten worse in the past few years ironically.
-- Does the public know how many hundreds of millions have been spent so far on this "state of the art" encrypted system in the past 10+ years and how much more is going to be spent for years to come in the upkeep of continually upgrading firmware/hardware/software and the monitoring, programming and maintenance of it all. Just one radio, equipped with all the options they want, including the heavier duty hardware based encryption modules, etc. costs more than the average old car Alaskans own nowadays. Let's not forget how the state and cities are "BROKE" right now and want to take our Permanent Fund Dividends to fund the government.
-- Without getting too technical into the subject, how are they dealing with the malfunction of their radios, especially when they lose their encryption key without the users knowing and now they're broadcasting more detailed information in the clear than ever over the airwaves thinking nobody can hear them. What if they just can't talk during a dire situation, especially caused by encryption issues and they endanger themselves and the public because of it. Are they ready to deal with the likely backlash and lawsuits that will arise from it?
-- How are they going to deal with the public requests for information from media and citizens alike? NIXLE\Facebook\Twitter\Social Media in general IS NOT GOING TO CUT IT! Period. Those are NOT official and legal binding records and sources for information that WE ARE entitled to know or need in one form or another.
There's lots more where all that came from but I'll give it a rest for now... LOL
-- What's going to be banned, prohibited, made illegal and cut off from the citizens next in the name of officer safety and national security?
-- I see several comments on related news articles from people that are nothing but "elated" about the decision of blocking all communications and I can't help to think if these are the same people that wanted all the court records and other legal and judicial information from the government also taken down from the Alaska Courts webpage due to "privacy concerns". Who are these people and do they not realize the dangerous path we're headed the more information that we don't have any access to? Are THEY the ones that also have something to hide?
‘The buck stops with me’: Mayor Berkowitz takes responsibility for encrypting Anchorage scanners | KTVA 11 News | The Voice of Alaska
-- We're already living in the kind of world that so much information about what our government is doing with our tax money, our rights and safety is withheld in the name of "national security¨ or just because "the terrorists". When more and more FOIA requests are being denied even for your own personal information also in the name of the "greater good". We're already dealing regularly with government officials, politicians and many in the media shirking their duties to the citizens they're supposed to serve and now we're supposed to just trust them that they're making the right decisions for their safety and our own?
-- Where's the research, proof, studies, official reports, statistics and independent entities that looked into the matter and deemed the conclusive action as the only bullet-proof solution to a problem we didn't even know existed? They claim they have that info but where is it? Oh I forgot, "national security" again. So far all we have is the hearsay that "some" criminals are using the info heard to do "something".
-- How often are we going to be informed, statistically and otherwise of how much the encryption decision has helped and improve anybody's safety and reduce crime that seems to have gotten worse in the past few years ironically.
-- Does the public know how many hundreds of millions have been spent so far on this "state of the art" encrypted system in the past 10+ years and how much more is going to be spent for years to come in the upkeep of continually upgrading firmware/hardware/software and the monitoring, programming and maintenance of it all. Just one radio, equipped with all the options they want, including the heavier duty hardware based encryption modules, etc. costs more than the average old car Alaskans own nowadays. Let's not forget how the state and cities are "BROKE" right now and want to take our Permanent Fund Dividends to fund the government.
-- Without getting too technical into the subject, how are they dealing with the malfunction of their radios, especially when they lose their encryption key without the users knowing and now they're broadcasting more detailed information in the clear than ever over the airwaves thinking nobody can hear them. What if they just can't talk during a dire situation, especially caused by encryption issues and they endanger themselves and the public because of it. Are they ready to deal with the likely backlash and lawsuits that will arise from it?
-- How are they going to deal with the public requests for information from media and citizens alike? NIXLE\Facebook\Twitter\Social Media in general IS NOT GOING TO CUT IT! Period. Those are NOT official and legal binding records and sources for information that WE ARE entitled to know or need in one form or another.
There's lots more where all that came from but I'll give it a rest for now... LOL
gonefishn1
Member
DITTO! I agree and second that!
Yes, you are exactly right. The County of Riverside implemented a new Phase II TDMA system that is fully encrypted all the way from LE to city government and Animal Control to park services.
This will be the trend moving forward. Its happening right in front of our eyes. If everybody remembers years ago there was a guy named BOB GROVE. He owned grove enterprises. He said 10 to 15 years ago that this hobby is dying at a slow rate back then. Now its at such a fast pace that its happening right in front of our eyes.
This was a big factor why he got our of the business since its a dying breed.
This encryption stuff really started right after 9/11. There were just a hand full of agencies that started encryption 15 years ago and have never looked back.
It always makes me laugh when people say they will try and fight it. Once the switch is flipped the clock will never be turned back.
So honestly enjoy what you listen to each day. One day you will not be able to listen anymore. Florida and California are in full force to lock everything down as fast as possible. It's been so crazy the past couple of years and I have never seen so much encryption implemented since I have been scanning for the past 35 years.
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W8RMH
Feed Provider Since 2012
With 23 years on the street and even more in the private sector my best intelligence and information came from scanner users and I never saw a scanner's use effect officer safety, except once when an arrest turned into a family brawl, where more family members heard the ACB for assistance and showed up to interfere, but this could have been initiated buy a couple phone calls as well. Also no officers were injured during this incident.
With over 2000 arrests I never once found a working scanner being used by the offender.
With over 2000 arrests I never once found a working scanner being used by the offender.
By the looks of it majority of your city support this move on various social media including the link you gave.
Sure they do. A lot of people (in the millions) supported Hitler too. Even to this day. That doesn't make it right or "an informed decision or person". :roll: (By the way, a majority of 60+ Facebook posts does not constitute a city or state wide concensus. That only counts when is an east coast political poll, LOL)
That's the point! A lot of the same people have made a lot of the decisions in the past that are affecting us now as a state. Back then they came out of the woodwork to express their opinion and set the stage to many bad decisions and of course not a single one can be found now or would confess to supporting the bad choice.
Last but not least, is that all you have to say about that whole big paragraph?
What it comes down to is apparently many of the people running the state of Alaska have the condescending attitude of doing stuff and making decisions as if they were some form of parental figure to their constituents. We can't let the "Because I said so!" mentality fly for every decision they take. The governor has tried that several times already, most recently about our Permanent Fund and how he's making the decision for our Legislature because they can't and effectively circumventing their authority and vote and that of the constituents.
Sounds familiar? Just like the current administration and executive branch circumventing congress on some of the most monumental bills in the history of the country.
But apparently some random people on social media agree so it must be right and we should let them do it?
lsh1885
Member
Disappointing news. I am planning a trip to Anchorage in late September and was planning on bringing my scanner to monitor Fire/EMS while I was there but I guess that is out the window. Down here in Orlando, Fl. most of Law Enforcement is encrypted but Fire/EMS is in the clear.
Here is something I consider at least indirectly related to the subject at hand and an example of another reversed decision that was major AND controversial at the same time: body cameras and microphones on police officers:
Kodiak police end body camera policy due to privacy concerns | KTVA 11 News | The Voice of Alaska
Notice the contrast in the comments section of this article versus the encryption one in that instead of maybe "rejoicing" about the reversed decision and caring about one more way their privacy has been restored like they claim on other matters, the sentiment is mostly all about "the police have something to hide". And although the jury still out (no pun intended) on that sentiment, why are people not seeing the bigger picture as usual. Is interesting how they don't feel that way when police are "hiding" their communications from the public and media. Sometimes is not hard to imagine, since it has become so common nowadays especially on political matters, that some people on online forums are "astro-turfed" to give the appearance of public opinion leaning towards one way or another.
Anyway, the big picture should be about how increasingly the government keeps pointing cameras at their citizens, have even bigger access to our personal records, want more access to our digital devices bypassing OUR encryption and other things WITHOUT warrants and accountability, etc. While those in government continue to do the opposite and increasingly keep obfuscating all their actions and day to day functions in the name of "safety this, security that".
Just the other day a judge finally started throwing out the cases where "evidence" was collected by the use of the cellphone communications related "stingray" device. Look it up if you don't know what it is and know that it and similar devices have been in use for a lot longer than we think. They now even have small airplanes flying around with such devices tracking everything in their footprint and perimeter.
But getting back to body cams/mics, some people in government (and tech industry) didn't let a crisis go to waste as they say, after what happen in Ferguson and other places. I would see how the "industry" quickly came up with "possible solutions" and politicians and others alike were quick to jump on the bandwagon, some places even passing legislation to get such body cameras/mics and suddenly there's tens of millions annually spent or projected to be spent on such unneeded and invasive technology. And is not just invasive on the citizens but also on the officers wearing them. Who would like to have their every move throughout their day recorded? Let's not even insinuate how many people in the tech industry, politicians, heads of agencies, etc. could be getting some sort of "kickback" for going along with contracts to spend OUR tax money for such technology. And again, let's not forget how our State of Alaska is "BROKE" and they "need" to take our permanent fund AND implement more taxes. How they're having to cut down on roads maintenance and closing down several police posts and even letting go some officers, can't hire anymore or both, so they claim. BUT! "There's always more money to operate in the shadows and increase surveillance in the name of safety and security! Yay! Let us spent the time, money and effort encrypting even the dog catcher and the public buses! Yay!" /sarcasm
How did we ever survived in the past without all the encryption, body cams/mics, "stingrays" and all the secretive behavior in part of our government for the past century?
We were doing just fine, that's how.
Kodiak police end body camera policy due to privacy concerns | KTVA 11 News | The Voice of Alaska
Notice the contrast in the comments section of this article versus the encryption one in that instead of maybe "rejoicing" about the reversed decision and caring about one more way their privacy has been restored like they claim on other matters, the sentiment is mostly all about "the police have something to hide". And although the jury still out (no pun intended) on that sentiment, why are people not seeing the bigger picture as usual. Is interesting how they don't feel that way when police are "hiding" their communications from the public and media. Sometimes is not hard to imagine, since it has become so common nowadays especially on political matters, that some people on online forums are "astro-turfed" to give the appearance of public opinion leaning towards one way or another.
Anyway, the big picture should be about how increasingly the government keeps pointing cameras at their citizens, have even bigger access to our personal records, want more access to our digital devices bypassing OUR encryption and other things WITHOUT warrants and accountability, etc. While those in government continue to do the opposite and increasingly keep obfuscating all their actions and day to day functions in the name of "safety this, security that".
Just the other day a judge finally started throwing out the cases where "evidence" was collected by the use of the cellphone communications related "stingray" device. Look it up if you don't know what it is and know that it and similar devices have been in use for a lot longer than we think. They now even have small airplanes flying around with such devices tracking everything in their footprint and perimeter.
But getting back to body cams/mics, some people in government (and tech industry) didn't let a crisis go to waste as they say, after what happen in Ferguson and other places. I would see how the "industry" quickly came up with "possible solutions" and politicians and others alike were quick to jump on the bandwagon, some places even passing legislation to get such body cameras/mics and suddenly there's tens of millions annually spent or projected to be spent on such unneeded and invasive technology. And is not just invasive on the citizens but also on the officers wearing them. Who would like to have their every move throughout their day recorded? Let's not even insinuate how many people in the tech industry, politicians, heads of agencies, etc. could be getting some sort of "kickback" for going along with contracts to spend OUR tax money for such technology. And again, let's not forget how our State of Alaska is "BROKE" and they "need" to take our permanent fund AND implement more taxes. How they're having to cut down on roads maintenance and closing down several police posts and even letting go some officers, can't hire anymore or both, so they claim. BUT! "There's always more money to operate in the shadows and increase surveillance in the name of safety and security! Yay! Let us spent the time, money and effort encrypting even the dog catcher and the public buses! Yay!" /sarcasm
How did we ever survived in the past without all the encryption, body cams/mics, "stingrays" and all the secretive behavior in part of our government for the past century?
We were doing just fine, that's how.
Unfortunately, I think encryption is going to be showing up more and more, and not just in Anchorage. The technology has become more affordable and widespread, and thus, easier to justify in public safety levies and yearly budgeting.
As others mentioned earlier, it really comes down to CYA, and has very little to do with officer safety. In today's 24-7-365 news cycle and connected world, one misstep (actual or perceived) by an agency brings in all sorts of outside scrutiny and criticism. Appointed administrators and elected officials would prefer to sidestep that sort of public relations headache if at all possible.
As others mentioned earlier, it really comes down to CYA, and has very little to do with officer safety. In today's 24-7-365 news cycle and connected world, one misstep (actual or perceived) by an agency brings in all sorts of outside scrutiny and criticism. Appointed administrators and elected officials would prefer to sidestep that sort of public relations headache if at all possible.
real smart encrypt the FD ask DC how well that worked for them
gonefishn1
Member
How well did that work for them???
I hope this cities / counties / states have a plan for when the fancy radio system goes BOOM because it will happen one day. I know that in one City near me some of the radios lost the encryption code lucky for those officers there were un-encrypted channels that they were able to go to. Then just about two months ago part of the Berks county went all but silent because something happened with the control channel. Took them almost 3 days to get it corrected, Yep the fancier you make the easier they break.
In a well designed and maintained system if issues occur fail safes are put in plan to revert to. Such as simplex or a single conventional repeated channel the equipment can fall back to or the users can select a zone and channel giving simplex and conventional repeated use. A few may skip this but if they do places such as Detroit having issues and no fail safes or convenational repeated then yeah you will have major issues. Many entities will have a cache of older system equipment if the older system is still around. Most will have a cache of equipment typically agencies who went conventional to 700mhz trs will have a option to use those old radios. While most believe on RR they migrated to a dtrs therefore the old listings are pulled not used is incorrect fpr many areas. It may be silent for long periods but I can guarantee off head ones I know for fact have use of older repeaters or limited old system use still and are licensed until 2023 to 2025. If the system admin is decent many steps can be put in place to prevent out right no communications. As for security keys can be retained and not lost and most use this feature. While you have one or two overtime loose a key otar etc can be used or the user be pulled in for a reprogram or loaner until issue is fixed. Overall most never have any issues. Notice you only hear about a few who have had issues being what 10 percent while the 90 percent elsewhere have no issues. I would imagine anchorage has a pretty good staff and planned the system well.
Yes, unfortunately I know and understand that. However, I think you also know that it's not a very good justification to do it just because "it's cheap".
Just like it still wasn't right when law enforcement was getting all the surplus military equipment and outfitted to look like they're in a war zone in the Middle East. In fact, I think they're better equipped here in the civilian world to "police" us the citizens than they are to fight global terrorism. Especially when you hear about all the decrease in military funding and the increase of domestic spending and grants to "protect us from ourselves"...
JoeyC
Senior Member
We've had a San Bernardino, an Orlando, a Dallas event and others (maybe not in Alaska, yet...), but, when is it OK to prepare? After some other unsuspecting city is caught off-guard and ill-prepared for the next round of lunatics with big weaponry terrorizing our cities? Local law enforcement beefing up their appearance and scaring the Hillary crowd? Who cares. The civilian world is better equipped because your current leader and likely the next don't even believe there is global terrorism. Some of the local leaders do, however, get it!
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