SublimeHiPpOs
Member
Thanks for taking the time to share your experience, good info!
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Antenna Recommendations for a Jeep
- Thread starter SublimeHiPpOs
- Start date
SublimeHiPpOs
Member
Is there any concern that the antenna would be angled slightly forward if mounted on the hood, since the hood isn't perfectly level? On a Jeep is it's about as level as any modern vehicle, but does still angle down a little.
SublimeHiPpOs
Member
Thanks for all the detail. Given the supposed retail price, I thought that 1200mm fiberglass antenna might have been a good option (especially given the sale price), but I'm still learning which brands are considered quality. Where does Nagoya fall in the lineup?
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Nagoya falls into the lower end/hobby grade antenna. Might work fine in your application, but considering the antenna is a really important part of your setup, it's worth spending slightly more to get one of the commercial grade antennas.
An antenna on a Jeep is not going to lead an easy life, so going cheap isn't a good approach.
Larsen and EM Wave are my favorites. I've run Larsen for 30+ years and had an excellent experience with them, including using them on UTV's. I've been using EM Wave antennas for about 2 years now, and I really like them, I'll likely start using them at work as I exhaust my Larsen stock.
I'm running a Laird antenna on my own UTV, and I've been happy with it. They have been known to have some issues with their base coils cracking, although mine have never done that.
You really get what you pay for when it comes to the antenna, especially in an application like this. Usually the cost difference is not great, and I've got a few antennas that are 30 years old, so I've absolutely got my money out of them.
All his videos are to get clicks and for some reason has a cult following on GMRS sites.
I run the "pepper shaker" LMR branded stuff on my TLMR systems and in that case they work fine. For anything else a standard 1/4 wave is more than adequate for a real GMRS repeater system. Those that need to run gain antenna's dont have decent systems to use.
I run the "pepper shaker" LMR branded stuff on my TLMR systems and in that case they work fine. For anything else a standard 1/4 wave is more than adequate for a real GMRS repeater system. Those that need to run gain antenna's dont have decent systems to use.
SublimeHiPpOs
Member
I'm having trouble finding specific items that fit the bill. I found this mount/cable my Diamond, which cost a bit more than I was hoping to pay, but it's not out of the question if it's worth it and will last. Otherwise, could you provide links for the Larsen and Laird options you'd suggest for me? I also read that some mounts (the Midlands lip mount at least I believe) have cables with a smaller connector on the end that's easier so pass through firewall grommets, then has an adapter to fit the connection on the radio. I have several other accessories with wires passing into my firewall, so it's getting a bit tight. I'm not sure exactly what the various fittings are called, so just want to make sure I get something that'll work for my Jeep and radio.
Diamond K400S-NMO Lip Mount
Would any of these be ideal antennas for my situation? And is this a reliable website?
There are many results and I can't exactly tell what all the difference are and which would be best for me.
GMRS Mobile Antennas - Laird TE Connectivity - Mobile Antennas
Are you looking for GMRS Mobile Antennas & Mounts for your GMRS Radio? Shop GMRS Mobile Antennas & Mounts at the Antenna Farm!
theantennafarm.com
These two caught my eye, but once again, I don't really know if they're the best choice for me or not...
UHF GMRS 450-470 MHz No Ground Plane Antenna 5dB 5/8w TE Connectivity BB4505CN
450-470 MHz No Ground Plane Antenna, Base loaded 5/8 over 5/8 wave 5dB antenna. Gain (dB) 5, Maximum Power 200(Watts), Whip Length 33"
theantennafarm.com
UHF GMRS 450-470 MHz Antenna 5dB 5/8W Mobile w/Spring TE Connectivity BB4505CR
450 - 470 MHz mobile coil antenna with an elastomer spring. Gain (dBi) 5 db, Maximum Power 200(Watts), Whip Length 34"
theantennafarm.com
In general I prefer Amazon due to the ease of returns, if need be, and I have their credit card, so I get extra cash back on purchases there. I've seen numerous mentions of BuyTwoWayRadio.com, so I'm assuming their reliable, but I'm not really sure how legit some of the other online radio retailers I've come across are.
Thanks again!!
tomk62
Member
You might find this test comparison of some popular GMRS antennas helpful, although "some people" may not agree with his methodology he is a jeeper and has actually used some of these on his rig.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
If that's the mount you need, then that should be fine. It's going to hover the base of the antenna above the ground plane, which is less than ideal. Drilling the hole is the better way to go if you can stomach that.
That's has RG-316 cable, which is pretty small. It has an SMA connector, which is pretty small also, but mobile radios don't often use that connector, so you'll need an adapter.
If you can drill the hole, they make NMO mounts with an FME connector on the end. That's a small connector that is designed to screw right into FME adapters. Better solution, but drilling holes isn't for everyone.
Would any of these be ideal antennas for my situation? And is this a reliable website?
There are many results and I can't exactly tell what all the difference are and which would be best for me.
GMRS Mobile Antennas - Laird TE Connectivity - Mobile Antennas
Are you looking for GMRS Mobile Antennas & Mounts for your GMRS Radio? Shop GMRS Mobile Antennas & Mounts at the Antenna Farm!
Antenna Farm is a good company, but they are temporarily shut down, so ordering from them won't be possible for a while. At the top of the page: Due to the health of the owner we are closed. All pending orders placed will be shipped. We are not taking any new orders at this time. Thank you.
If it was me, I'd go with this one.
Laird TE Connectivity B4502NS UHF 450-470 MHz NGP 2.4dB 1/2 Wave Mobile Antenna
450-470 MHz Antenna, No ground plane base loaded 1/2 wave antenna with spring. 2.4 dB gain, Maximum Power 200(Watts), Whip Length 15"
theantennafarm.com
The higher gain antennas you linked to can work, but I've found that too much gain can work against you. The additional gain makes your radio appear to have a much larger antenna, but it achieves that by smashing the radiation pattern down. That can sometimes impact performance once you get off camber. Usually the longer length of the gain antennas is also a problem with clearance and hitting things. I've never found that adding a dB or two of gain makes much noticeable difference. I mean, it does, but it is usually so slight, that the trade offs have never been worth it to me.
If you can find what you want on Amazon, and the price is good, there is nothing wrong with that. The ease of returning is worth it.
Never heard of them.
These guys are supposed to be pretty good, but I've never used them:
Factory authorized STOCKING DISTRIBUTOR of Antennas, Brackets, ...
Arcadian, Inc. is a master stocking distributor of ANTENNAS for Cellular M2M, UHF RFID, Public Safety/LMR & iDAS. Arcadian also offers related wireless gear including antenna mounting brackets, coaxial cable, enclosures, connectors and cable assemblies.
www.arcantenna.com
www.tessco.com is an excellent source, and I buy a lot of stuff from them for work, but they can be expensive.
If it was me, I'd go with this one.
It's a 1/2 wave design, so does not rely on a ground plane (but will work better with one). The spring is nice in case you hit any low tree branches. With that Diamond mount, you want to protect it from getting hit by anything large. I'm using the VHF version of that antenna on a UTV.Laird TE Connectivity B4502NS UHF 450-470 MHz NGP 2.4dB 1/2 Wave Mobile Antenna
450-470 MHz Antenna, No ground plane base loaded 1/2 wave antenna with spring. 2.4 dB gain, Maximum Power 200(Watts), Whip Length 15"
Have used that one for a little over a year, and can 2nd that recommendation. It works well and is still short enough to be inobtrusive.
Looks similar to this antenna from Rugged Radios (also sold by Amazon) for $48:
GMRS and UHF No Ground Plane NGP Tuned Whip Antenna
(9)
SKU: POINT5
$48.00
Default Title - $48.00
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Yeah, there's a lot of "looks similar" antennas on there. Tram/Browning seem to make a lot of antennas that look nearly identical to those made by the big manufacturers and companies like Rugged Radios will resell them as their own brand.
Having disassembled some of the Tram/Browning products, they are not the same.
The slightly higher price for the known name brand is well worth it in the long run.
SublimeHiPpOs
Member
I'm not crazy about the idea of drilling a new hole, but I'm open to the idea of removing one of the hood bumpers and opening up the hole a bit to accommodate a NMO mount. Here's a shot I found showing what the hole looks like from under the hood. It looks like there are two layers to the hood, does it seem like this would work if I enlarge the upper hole to 3/4"?
I took some crude measurements and estimate that I need right at about 7' of cable to reach from the mount to my radio inside, so unfortunately the 6'/6.5' cables won't likely work, so I guess I'll have a bunch of extra to deal with. I wish there were options between 6' and 17'.
Would this mount work well?
NMOKHFUDFME: NMO Mount with FME Installed.17 foot RG-58/U Dual Shield Cable.
Pulse / Larsen NMOKHFUDFME NMO style mounts convert from low frequency applications to high frequency applications and and include 17 feet of RG-58U dual shield coaxial cable with an FME female connector installed. ***Click here to see all the collection of Pulse/Larsen NMO Mounts we sell or...
www.arcantenna.com
SublimeHiPpOs
Member
If I go with a mount that goes through a hole in my hood, would I be better off with an antenna that requires a ground plane (rather than NGP)?If it was me, I'd go with this one.
It's a 1/2 wave design, so does not rely on a ground plane (but will work better with one). The spring is nice in case you hit any low tree branches.Laird TE Connectivity B4502NS UHF 450-470 MHz NGP 2.4dB 1/2 Wave Mobile Antenna
450-470 MHz Antenna, No ground plane base loaded 1/2 wave antenna with spring. 2.4 dB gain, Maximum Power 200(Watts), Whip Length 15"
Maybe something like this one?
BB4502NS: 450-470 MHz Mobile Base Coil NMO Mount Antenna With Spring-No Metalic Ground Plane Required
The Laird / Antenex BB4502NS is a 12.6 inch long, Black base coil, omnidirectional whip antenna for operation in the 450-470 MHz UHF band, with NMO base and spring. No metal ground plane required. *This Antenna Requires a NMO Mount. Please click here to find all Thru-Hole NMO mounts or Magnetic...
www.arcantenna.com
This one doesn't explicitly state that it's for GMRS though, so would that mean it would likely require tuning?
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mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Yes. I'd be very careful how you enlarge the hole, though. The stepped drill bits can work, but you have to be super careful.
I have a 3/4" chassis punch (actual 0.750 inches, not to be confused with 3/4" 'trade size' used for conduit fittings) that would make it super easy. Unfortunately I'm on the far coast, or I'd offer to meet you.
A little extra cable won't be the end of the world. If you need 7' I'd not run the full 17'.
Back when www.theantennafarm.com was running, you could order custom length on the NMO mounts. I'm not aware of anyone else that does that.
Couple of options:
Buy a mount, send it to one of us, we install the connector and ship it back.
Buy a mount, install it, take the Jeep to a local radio shop and pay them a few bucks/6 pack to cut the cable and install the connector for you.
Less ideal option: take the l-o-n-g path to your radio.
Would this mount work well?
NMOKHFUDFME: NMO Mount with FME Installed.17 foot RG-58/U Dual Shield Cable.
Pulse / Larsen NMOKHFUDFME NMO style mounts convert from low frequency applications to high frequency applications and and include 17 feet of RG-58U dual shield coaxial cable with an FME female connector installed. ***Click here to see all the collection of Pulse/Larsen NMO Mounts we sell or...
Yes. And that is what I would have recommended, with one minor modification:
NMO mounts are designed to be mounted with the cable entry inside a warm/dry vehicle, not exposed. Even though yours would be pretty well protected, it's still in a place that moisture, dirt, dust, mud, fluids can access. Copper wire and water don't mix and can quickly cause issues. The "hf' style mounts like that are a good step in the right direction for this sort of installation, but that crimp where the coax enters does not necessarily waterproof the connection.
I would send you to Harbor Freight or Amazon for a piece of marine grade heat shrink of suitable size to slide over the FME connector and all the way up to the mount. Shrink it over the point where the coax enters the mount and shrink it.
The "marine grade" heat shrink part is important. That stuff has a hot melt adhesive inside that will melt and flow when the tubing is shrunk. That will completely seal off that entry point.
Harbor Freight sells little boxes full of various sizes for ~$10 or so. Or, you can buy it on Amazon.
Really is worth that effort. Also, really useful for sealing the other end of the coax, as the heat shrink acts as a really nice strain relief for the radio end connector. I use a lot of this stuff when doing installations.
Then, you just get yourself the correct FME adapter to meet your radio.
Or, cut it to the length you want and have Mr. Local Radio Shop install the right connector for you.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
The nice thing about NMO mounts is that you have a wide range of antennas to select from. The NMO mount is -the- industry standard for mobile antenna mounts.
With the antenna mounted directly on the hood like that, you absolutely have a good ground plane under the antenna, so you would not be restricted to using no ground plane antennas.
A 1/2 wave antenna will give you 0dBi of gain when mounted with no ground plane. With a ground plane, that gain jumps to about 2dBi.
A 5/8th's wave antenna will give you 3dBi of gain with the ground plane and only be a few inches taller.
Either antenna will work fine, and and the slight difference in gain will likely not be noticed in your application.
I'd probably go with the 1/2 wave with the spring. You can always swap out antennas later and play around to see what you like.
Maybe something like this one?
BB4502NS: 450-470 MHz Mobile Base Coil NMO Mount Antenna With Spring-No Metalic Ground Plane Required
The Laird / Antenex BB4502NS is a 12.6 inch long, Black base coil, omnidirectional whip antenna for operation in the 450-470 MHz UHF band, with NMO base and spring. No metal ground plane required. *This Antenna Requires a NMO Mount. Please click here to find all Thru-Hole NMO mounts or Magnetic...
That one would be fine.
Right, and that doesn't matter. There isn't anything magical about a "GMRS antenna". It's just a UHF antenna that will cover the 462/467MHz frequencies. Don't pay more for an antenna sold specifically as GMRS, that's just the vendor taking advantage of you.
Any of those good commercial antennas will either come with a 'cut chart', or a link to a webpage that has the cut chart. That will tell you how long to cut the whip to get it close to the frequencies you need (for GMRS, tune for 465MHz, as that will land you right in between the two sections). Always good to follow up with an SWR meter, but the cut charts will usually get you close enough.
I think opening up that hole would be worse for looks and resale. An antenna sticking out of a hole from a now missing hood bumper in the middle of the hood would look like a mistake, to me at least.I'm not crazy about the idea of drilling a new hole, but I'm open to the idea of removing one of the hood bumpers and opening up the hole a bit to accommodate a NMO mount. Here's a shot I found showing what the hole looks like from under the hood. It looks like there are two layers to the hood, does it seem like this would work if I enlarge the upper hole to 3/4"?
View attachment 150429
I took some crude measurements and estimate that I need right at about 7' of cable to reach from the mount to my radio inside, so unfortunately the 6'/6.5' cables won't likely work, so I guess I'll have a bunch of extra to deal with. I wish there were options between 6' and 17'.
Would this mount work well?
NMOKHFUDFME: NMO Mount with FME Installed.17 foot RG-58/U Dual Shield Cable.
Pulse / Larsen NMOKHFUDFME NMO style mounts convert from low frequency applications to high frequency applications and and include 17 feet of RG-58U dual shield coaxial cable with an FME female connector installed. ***Click here to see all the collection of Pulse/Larsen NMO Mounts we sell or...
SublimeHiPpOs
Member
I'm leaning away from this option more now, but my thought was that I could replace the bumper (I read on another forum where someone had done this and said that even though they had to slightly enlarge the hole, they were still able to reinstall the factory bumper. There are also aftermarket bumpers that install with a nut, so I could just get a larger washer if need be. But regardless, I'm shying away from this route now. Will probably either go with a lip mount on the hood or attach to the rear tire carrier. I'm kind of leaning to the latter now for better protection from getting whacked by branches and avoid obstructing the passenger's view, even though I know I'll likely sacrifice a little performance.
A bumper is a really bad place for an antenna, even CB or HF. GMRS or UHF only needs about 6” dia of ground plane and a hood lip mount provides most of that. I believe I posted about taking off the Jeep curved cowl pieces and lining them with 2” wide self adhesive aluminum tape to extend the ground plane towards the rear a bit. The two hood lip mounted antennas on my Jeep work as well as they did on other vehicles and I’m very happy with the performance.
Check with Rugged Radios. They specialized in off-roading vehicles. Even Midland has gotten into producing half-way decent GMRS products for off-roading. Midland has stepped up to the plate lately with better antenna products for GMRS. It's definitely worth look at both Midland and Rugged Radios. For Jeeps you really don't have that much to choose from.
Take a look at the Bull Bumper Antenna. Aestectically, it'll look kinda "Ghetto" attached to the front bumper but again it's what they do in Australia. Again, there's not that many viable choices with decent a VSWR.
