Antrim County going encrypted

[RichM]

I’m sorry to share this as reported by the Antrim Review newspaper 10/10/2024.

”A 2023 FBI audit found that Antrim County, like many Michigan counties, was not in compliance with federal guidelines concerning encrypted radio communications. To reach FBI compliance, the Sheriff‘s Department and all county Police Departments will all need to communicate on encrypted channels.”

This is an excerpt of the full article which was taken from the printed article as an online version wasn’t available. This will cost county taxpayers approximately $50,000 to upgrade their relatively new radios which county commissioners approved at their last meeting. It went on to say other counties with older radios could spend up to $2 million to reach compliance.

What a ridiculous waste of resources. This is a rural area where encryption is only used by drug enforcement and the like during stake outs. So much for knowing what is happening around me, time to find a new hobby. Not happy to share this terrible news. If you live in MI, FBI says your county is next.

 

[drdispatch]

The FBI requirements technically only refer to the transmission of criminal justice information, which is information obtained from LEIN /NCIC; so if they have a dedicated LEIN channel, they might only have to encrypt that. (Which only makes sense anyway, since they're passing people's names, dates of birth, addresses, etc.)

 

[RichM]

I certainly hope that is the case. It does make sense to encrypt that info. Will update what I hear, thanks for the encouraging words.

 

[WQWD609]

The FBI requirements technically only refer to the transmission of criminal justice information, which is information obtained from LEIN /NCIC; so if they have a dedicated LEIN channel, they might only have to encrypt that. (Which only makes sense anyway, since they're passing people's names, dates of birth, addresses, etc.)

Yeah but I'm sure they will enc everything because "why not". Then when fire hears that PD is getting it the chiefs will cry and fire will go enc as well. I agree LEIN, EMS to hosp., etc should be Enc but Disp should be in the clear.

 

[n3obl]

Yeah but I'm sure they will enc everything because "why not". Then when fire hears that PD is getting it the chiefs will cry and fire will go enc as well. I agree LEIN, EMS to hosp., etc should be Enc but Disp should be in the clear.

actually there really no reason to encrypt ems to hosp. Most transmissions are very short brief notifications and no PHI is being disclosed over the air.

 

[RichM]

While I certainly respect drdispatch‘s professional interpretation of the mandate and hope he is correct, it is the wording in the news article that worries me. Quote from Sgt Mike Burch, Antrim county 911 director - “the Sheriff‘s Department and all county Police Departments will all need to communicate on encrypted channels.”

Encrypting LEIN sure makes a lot more sense. I predict an interoperability nightmare between adjacent counties until everyone is on board, they already have trouble communicating directly and usually have to work through each others dispatch.

And WQWD609 is correct, fire would want to be next. Which raises another question, what about MSP? It’s such a slippery slope, I mean they already TX via cell if they don’t want something over air, this is a county of 23,000 not New York City.

 

[kd8ati]

While I certainly respect drdispatch‘s professional interpretation of the mandate and hope he is correct, it is the wording in the news article that worries me. Quote from Sgt Mike Burch, Antrim county 911 director - “the Sheriff‘s Department and all county Police Departments will all need to communicate on encrypted channels.”

Encrypting LEIN sure makes a lot more sense. I predict an interoperability nightmare between adjacent counties until everyone is on board, they already have trouble communicating directly and usually have to work through each others dispatch.

And WQWD609 is correct, fire would want to be next. Which raises another question, what about MSP? It’s such a slippery slope, I mean they already TX via cell if they don’t want something over air, this is a county of 23,000 not New York City.

drdispatch is correct. The FBI mandate is specific towards having personally identifiable information (basically anything you can get on LEIN such as license plate returns, ops code returns, warrant information, ect ect.) on an encrypted radio channel/talkgroup. For larger departments and countywide sheriff departments, a dedicated LEIN talkgroup would satisfy that requirement, while keeping dispatch in the clear, as long as they are careful not to accidentally give any returns over that talkgroup. The department I work for and what im currently dealing with (as are a ton of other departments) as a small suburban department outside of Detroit, is that it would not make any operational sense to create a dedicated LEIN talkgroup for the low amount of radio traffic we have. As much as I am anti-encryption, ultimately you need to do what makes the most operational sense for the department, while keeping in line with FBI and CJIS requirements.
As far as MSP goes.... district two which covers metro Detroit is currently in the process of getting their radios reprogramed in anticipation of a switch over to full encrpytion, which is expected to occur sooner rather then later. Not sure about any of the other districts in the state.

 

[Robbie1984]

Partial or casual encryption of certain channels for passing on sensitive information makes sense but full encryption of all services for non emergency or routine traffic carries significant risks and also hits hip pockets more harder here in South Australia when the SA GRN was first pitched to all agencies the suggestion was to make it completely encrypted however that suffered humongous backlash from volunteer services and forest/parks and wildlife due to safety concerns during fire season and summer

In the end SA Police, Fisheries, Transport/Highways dept decided to fully encrypt their talk groups then SA Ambulance/SA Health in 2014 encrypted their talk groups including dispatch due to sensitive information broadcasted when crews were paged to a medical emergency including patient's personal details and so on this also included when liaising with local A&E for hospital consults

However there was a compromise that kept scanner listeners fairly happy in addition to all the above mentioned agencies having the privacy of encryption for day to day operations a block of additional 19 talk groups known as Multi Agency or Mutual Aid as you guys over there call it were set aside in the event where an agency such as SA Ambulance required communications with the fire service they would change to TG- 033 this allows anyone to listen to the conversation

 

[RichM]

There was a new TG 4870 that was encrypted and testing on the Rapid City tower secondary control channels this morning.

 

[hockeyref2]

There was a new TG 4870 that was encrypted and testing on the Rapid City tower secondary control channels this morning.

I had some affiliations in the past on that group off of Waters, I had noted the RID's as associated with D7 AUXCOM.

 

[smithken]

Livonia law enforcement went all encrypted except for court officers when Livonia switched to MPSCS several years ago. Livonia fire dispatch, enroute and fire ground 1 are not encrypted but the only channels I've heard Livonia fire use is the dispatch channel. When there is a dispatch Livonia fire doesn't give any information on the dispatch channel, they just say something like "station 2 priority 3 rescue" and nothing, I assume they get the other information via a terminal at the station or in their vehicles.

Canton Township has been totally encrypted since their move to MPSCS.

 

[Robbie1984]

Livonia law enforcement went all encrypted except for court officers when Livonia switched to MPSCS several years ago. Livonia fire dispatch, enroute and fire ground 1 are not encrypted but the only channels I've heard Livonia fire use is the dispatch channel. When there is a dispatch Livonia fire doesn't give any information on the dispatch channel, they just say something like "station 2 priority 3 rescue" and nothing, I assume they get the other information via a terminal at the station or in their vehicles.

Canton Township has been totally encrypted since their move to MPSCS.

If there isn't much information given over the Livonia Fire dispatch channel its likely their appliances are fitted with tough pads which allow them to get all incident info and other important notifications but I wouldn't give up hope just yet as the depts may also provide dispatch with situation reports and alarm upgrades as that's what the Metropolitan Fire Service here in South Australia do plus they've got fire ground talk group's that are really Line Of Sight or Local meaning you need to be in said area close by to an incident or within say 5-40 kms from it to hear any chatter

Here in South Australia out of the 14 agencies on the SA-GRN only 7 being Police, Ambulance, SA Water, Transport/Roads, Hospitals, Fisheries, SA Power Network are all encrypted apart from our Courts/Prisons who are in the clear along with CFS, MFS, SES, Forestry, Parks & Wildlife, Primary Industries and a couple of other users

Another example is Regional Mobile Radio Network used in Victoria by Fire/Rescue Victoria and SES they have dispatch channels where you can hear them turn out to an incident as well as provide situation reports or request alarm upgrades but once a fire ground or a close comms channel is required you need to be relatively close by to hear anything going on as said channel is Line Of Sight

 

[MattMarderosian]

Kalkaska County has changed to some new systems for CAD it's cutting down on some talk it wouldn't surprise me if they follow Antrim County

 

[szron]

This is gonna be a disaster for interoperability especially in second district.

FBI CJIS unilateraly created an unfunded mandate that will cost millions to implement and cause tons of interop issues not to mention transparency issues.

 

[RichM]

Antrim County is one of the poorest counties in the state. Their jail complex is over 50 years old and literally falling apart, voters rejected the mileage to try and fix it - again. Poor folks don’t want/can’t afford higher taxes. Then the feds step in and mandate this so the county has to come up with the money. Classic over reach by the government painting with a broad stroke that does not take into account local situations or common sense. What kills me is I am one of the residents who will foot the bill for this unneeded nonsense.

 

[knockoffham]

There likely wouldn’t be interoperability issues, MPSCS tries to encourage agencies to all use common keys, even ADP. I hope they don’t encrypt dispatch though.

 

[drdispatch]

If they have a dedicated talkgroup for LEIN traffic, they could get away with just encrypting that one and leaving the rest in the clear; as long as they don't pass any CJI/PII over them. If they don't have a dedicated LEIN talkgroup, they could request one from the state, and if it's been at least a year since their radios were programmed, the state will reprogram them to add the new talkgroup free of charge. If they already have radios capable of AES, all of this would cost nothing but time.

 

[knockoffham]

If they have a dedicated talkgroup for LEIN traffic, they could get away with just encrypting that one and leaving the rest in the clear; as long as they don't pass any CJI/PII over them. If they don't have a dedicated LEIN talkgroup, they could request one from the state, and if it's been at least a year since their radios were programmed, the state will reprogram them to add the new talkgroup free of charge. If they already have radios capable of AES, all of this would cost nothing but time.

Even if they don’t have AES, they should have ADP with the common MPSCS key so it would only be a case of simple reprogramming. In my county, all encrypted talkgroups use ADP, none use AES yet apart from L-event channels.

 

[drdispatch]

Even if they don’t have AES, they should have ADP with the common MPSCS key so it would only be a case of simple reprogramming. In my county, all encrypted talkgroups use ADP, none use AES yet apart from L-event channels.

They will have to switch to AES sooner or later, since the CJIS Security Policy requires it. It probably won't be enforced until late this year or early next year, though.

 

[kd8ati]

They will have to switch to AES sooner or later, since the CJIS Security Policy requires it. It probably won't be enforced until late this year or early next year, though.

Last I heard enforcement will not begin until late summer next year. Even then it will just be a warning type of enforcement since it will be impossible for many areas to find funding by then. The feds want to make costly mandates but don't want to provide any kind of path for funding