APX newbie question

[batt14firebuff]

Hi all,

I'm about to purchase my first APX, looking like it'll be an 8000HXE. I'm getting it from gallad on eBay, and the radio comes tagless. It will be strictly for personal use, as I am assigned a radio while on duty at work. I've heard people say "don't bother trying to get on a trunked system without tags".. what if I'm just doing NAS? Do tags still matter then?

Any help would be appreciated, thank you!

 

[UAT_978]

no, tags wont matter with NAS.

 

[batt14firebuff]

no, tags wont matter with NAS.

appreciate the help, thank you!

 

[MTS2000des]

Don't overpay. A tagless parts radio won't likely ever be able to be depot serviced, or if it has some fake serial number, expect a ton of questions just to get your radio back. For ham/hobbyist use, no problem- just don't expect MSI or anyone to hold your hand if it breaks or has problems.

 

[rescuecomm]

no, tags wont matter with NAS.

What? I was told that a system ID is required for NAS and that was Batforce property on this very site.

It was said to be a definite No No, so my XTS2500 800mhz has sat on a shelf gathering dust and unprogrammed.

Now it's okay? What about the Warning Header above about monitoring a trunked system with a Motorola radio?

 

[batt14firebuff]

What? I was told that a system ID is required for NAS and that was Batforce property on this very site.

It was said to be a definite No No, so my XTS2500 800mhz has sat on a shelf gathering dust and unprogrammed.

Now it's okay?

Aren’t system ids posted on the db for trunked systems?

 

[rescuecomm]

The top thread here discusses using a handheld radio to monitor a trunked system. I'm not against doing it, rather that some people are vehemently against doing it.

 

[hp8920]

Aren’t system ids posted on the db for trunked systems?

rescuecomm is referring to the system key. System IDs are public and can be obtained from a scanner.

 

[AM909]

Not commenting on that specific seller, but you might care that tagless radios are sometimes "misplaced" (often intentionally) radios, or radios put together (some not very well) from parts that were stolen from their owner (sometimes Motorola).

 

[batt14firebuff]

I appreciate all your input! thanks

 

[WX4JCW]

Aren’t system ids posted on the db for trunked systems?

No one will tell you on here how to do it, and if you do it wrong someone will have a gigantic smile of satisfaction when they press that button and brick your $4000 radio

Sysid's aren't the issue, they are in public view, it's the proprietary file required for the programming that's the issue, not to mention thee fact if you program improperly you can cause issues on a radio system.

 

[K2NEC]

If you're looking to buy a $4000 radio just to scan trunking systems then you're doing it all wrong. There's so many better options for cheaper price tags and it sounds like you don't really know what you're doing.

 

[batt14firebuff]

If you're looking to buy a $4000 radio just to scan trunking systems then you're doing it all wrong. There's so many better options for cheaper price tags and it sounds like you don't really know what you're doing.

I’m buying the radio to actually use it, the NAS is just an added bonus I’m hoping to take advantage of, since my old radio was only 7/800—and I’m having someone I know do it since he definitely knows what he’s doing. I never did any NAS on my old Motorola radio so I didn’t know if you physically needed info from the tag for anything.

Thank you for the insight though

 

[northstarfire0693]

You can see what sys key the system uses here on the DB. Thats not an issue. Its getting the sys key to put in the radio to set it up for NAS. Yes, there are ways to do that, but its illegal unless you get the key from the sys admin. I wont go into detail on the work around to bypass that. As was said before, please make sure you or your friend know what you are doing when setting up NAS. If done wrong, the radio WILL try to register with the system and your radio could get bricked depending on the system and the admin. There are sys admins on here that could go into better detail on it.

There are other radios you could get that are way more cost effective and do what you want. I know Harris will and I believe BK can. There could be a few others, but those are the two I know that dont have to be tricked into monitoring a trunked system. They can be set up to never register in the programing. Very safe way to do it.

 

[ElroyJetson]

Let's just say that some laws are like jaywalking...illegal but nobody is likely to notice, say, or do anything if you're not jaywalking in heavy traffic and causing accidents.

If every person who had the system key generator software that's floating around EVERYWHERE were to be in prison today for it, most radio forums would be ghost towns unless the prisons allow internet access.

The tricks to NAS are basically to rigidly stick to the well established rules of NAS scanning. First and foremost, you never let your radio's channel selector directly select the trunking system in question. NEVER. Trunked systems are to be accessed ONLY via reference to trunked entries in mode slaved scan lists that are connected to conventional channels.

If you never violate those rules, you're golden. If you do violate them, you're a brightly glowing target.

It's better to use a Harris radio for NAS scanning. Because RPM/RPM2 offers true no transmit/no affiliate programming options, Motorola does not. By using a Harris radio, you can ignore most of the NAS special procedures that are designed explicitly so that you can stealthily scan a trunked system using a MOTOROLA radio. With Harris, you simply deselect auto login, TX, and calls on every talkgroup and system.

 

[GTR8000]

The tricks to NAS are basically to rigidly stick to the well established rules of NAS scanning. First and foremost, you never let your radio's channel selector directly select the trunking system in question. NEVER. Trunked systems are to be accessed ONLY via reference to trunked entries in mode slaved scan lists that are connected to conventional channels.

If you never violate those rules, you're golden. If you do violate them, you're a brightly glowing target.

Yeah, except when you're not golden. For example when I recently tested an old theory I had about setting coverage to Disabled (instead of SmartZone) in the APX trunking system, then letting the radio sit on a conventional channel. Guess what? It tries to register/affiliate. Yes, from a conventional channel with either Multi-System Talkgroup and/or Intelligent Priority scan list type. Slaved to the conventional channel, not to the trunking talkgroup, you read that correctly.

This is why I normally don't give out advice on setting up ASTRO 25 or APX subscribers for the so-called "non-affiliate" scan method, because a) it requires a system key that no one should have unless authorized and b) it's too easy to screw something up even if you follow your so-called "golden rules". The fact that a few of you (most from Florida, go figure) insist on regularly discussing the SKEYGEN software doesn't help, but I guess some of you want to be a hero or thumb your nose at the system/the man. Whatever.

 

[KevinC]

Yeah, except when you're not golden. For example when I recently tested an old theory I had about setting coverage to Disabled (instead of SmartZone) in the APX trunking system, then letting the radio sit on a conventional channel. Guess what? It tries to register/affiliate. Yes, from a conventional channel with either Multi-System Talkgroup and/or Intelligent Priority scan list type. Slaved to the conventional channel, not to the trunking talkgroup, you read that correctly.

This is why I normally don't give out advice on setting up ASTRO 25 or APX subscribers for the so-called "non-affiliate" scan method, because a) it requires a system key that no one should have unless authorized and b) it's too easy to screw something up even if you follow your so-called "golden rules". The fact that a few of you (most from Florida, go figure) insist on regularly discussing the SKEYGEN software doesn't help, but I guess some of you want to be a hero or thumb your nose at the system/the man. Whatever.

Hmm...I just tried several different radios and saw no attempts to register or any sign of RF leaving the radio.

 

[GTR8000]

I tried it the other day, red LED flashing, confirmed with a certain software that it was trying to register on the system that I had coverage set to disabled with a valid Site ID, Intelligent Priority scan list slaved to conventional channel. Firmware R30. Maybe the two radios I tested with are possessed.

 

[ElroyJetson]

That variance in results may be firmware related. Or relate to a different type of radio. (Which would take different firmware.)
I still say, Harris radios are best for non affilliate scanning. I got an XL-185P when the same money could have easily gotten me an APX6000 in the same band instead.

 

[KevinC]

I tried it the other day, red LED flashing, confirmed with a certain software that it was trying to register on the system that I had coverage set to disabled with a valid Site ID, Intelligent Priority scan list slaved to conventional channel. Firmware R30. Maybe the two radios I tested with are possessed.

We're getting OT, but this has me curious. Do you have a data profile selected for the trunked system?